Speed vs weight...

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dplumlee12

Member
Dec 28, 2012
201
What is more important? 
What is minimum grain arrow to use for elk?
I seem to shoot heavier arrows better... What do you guys think?
 
I think the key is Kinetic Energy and that is a function of both mrear end and velocity.  Thus, both have their place and I straddle a bit of both.  My arrow weight is about 495 gms and my speed is about 295 ft/sec.  Not sure what the formula is for the KE, but it can be calculated.  If I favored one or the other, I would definitely go with more weight as Fred Bear was killing critters like cape buffalo with arrow speeds a lot less than the average bow of today and it was about shot placement and arrow weight back then.
 
A heavier arrow allows the bow to transfer more energy to since it is on the string longer.  They also help to quiet down bows for the same reason.

People put too much emphasis on KE.  You have to think about how many animals have been killed with bows that were nothing more than a branch, twine, stick, and stone broadhead.  The amount of energy and speed coming from those setups pale in comparison to what we have today. 

Shot placement is key.  Doesn't matter how much KE/Speed/Momentum you have if your shot is not good.  "A fast miss is still a miss."


 
I initially wanted to know because my friend shot an elk this year from 46 yards.  I thought placement was a little low but I did not actually see the impact.  We followed blood all day and at the end of the day jumped a fairly healthy bull out of his bed.  I know we probably pushed too hard and probably should have waited.
That being said I believe he was shooting around a 375 grain setup.  His bow is a PSE Brute @ 60lbs.  The arrow went in about 20 of the 29"s then broke off.  I think his setup was a little light but thats kinda why I asked.
 
It's more than speed and weight.  Both matter.
BUT.
I believe weight gets you more bang for your buck with regard to lethality.
Look up Dr. Ed Ashby and you'll get some perspective on the matter.
I'm not saying it's gospel, but it definitely helps to see through the marketing crap.
The archery business in the US is about speed...think whitetails...how many millions of deer are hunted vs. elk?  Speed matters, but it is a very short-sided view on lethality, especially on big animals.  KE describes what leaves the bow...better to calculate it down-range.  It is beneficial to look at momentum, FOC, and broad-head configuration.  Mostly, shoot what gives you confidence.
That said, I shoot up to 600grains and still have a very effective long shot.
For what it's worth.
 
Don't forget about the FOC.  Also keep in mind that a heavier arrow is less affected by the wind (same with smaller surface area of vanes will be less affected by wind)...and that the diameter of the arrow will also play a role in penetration and wind (smaller diameter equals smaller surface area which has a correlation to less surface area for wind to affect and also friction when entering into an animal). 

If only it was as simple as speed vs. weight!
 
On paper, i think weight is more important BUT then there is real life. i think you have to find the perfect mix based on your setup. faster arrow mean tighter pins and less time in the air, but it may also mean you gave up some KE/penetration. I shoot a 410gr arrow at 286fps from a bow set at 62# and get 74ish ft/KE. I find this to be plenty for elk out to 60ish yards.
 
That's a great calculator, bloodrunner. Thanks for sharing!

I think too much emphasis is put on speed and KE vs. proper shot placement. While solid KE is a plus, if you don't hit your target in the best area possible the KE and speed won't matter. There are people shooting 50# wooden bows with wooden arrows and arrowing elk. Use your best judgement and utilize all of the tools you can, but practice, practice, practice and that will surely help.
 
ELKNUT did a penetration experiment awhile back.  He shot arrows from super light all the way to super heavy. He did test from close in out to 40yds.  The cliff note version is this.  He found that he got the best penetration at a weight of 6.5-6.7 grains per pound of draw weight.  He also found that for arrows that weighed the same.  The ones with a higher FOC and arrows with a narrower diameter penetrated better than thicker arrows with a lower FOC. 
 
In my case I shoot a 400 grain arrow at 297 FPS with a kinetic energy of 78.37 ft.lbs
 
I just answered this question on another subject, Arrow Selection.

My feelings are a heavier arrow tends to have a better chance of punching through the other side!!  More holes bleed more blood!!  This season, I went from a 320 IBO bow to a 345 IBO one.  So, to take advantage of the speed, I went from a 405grain arrow to 435.  Of course, the shot I get is quartering away so thinking I got a heavy stick, I should be able to get through the other side right!  Entry was 2 ribs from the ponch and went through the opposite shoulder and stopped by hide!  No Exit wound!!!  Looking for my arrow, I realize that there isn’t any blood!!  Good news is his buddy, another bull, didn’t have a clue what happened and actually stayed with him until I finally came into view!!  Thank you LORD!!!!

So, I guess SoCal Bowhunter is also right!!  Shot selection and arrow weight should be considered when harvesting an animal as big as an Elk!!
 
I always thought that weight was important.  Bloodrunner thanks for the link that is very helpful to this question.  and figuring may own gear.
 
Great topic! This is something I push really hard. And that is to shoot a heavier arrow, especially with bows today that are producing high IBO's. A lighter arrow will allow you to shoot flatter at longer distances but are also a lot less forgiving. Plus you dramatically lose momentum at further ranges. And momentum is more important then kenetic energy. Best way I can explain it is take a wiffle ball ad throw it 30 yards at 90 mph.By the time it gets there its lots a ton of momentum. Now take a baseball throw it 30 yards but at 60 mph. It's heavier so going to maintain greater momentum and going to penetrate a lot better. Not only that, heavier arrows are more forgiving, quit your bow down, lengthen the life of limbs and strings. All my opinion though :)
 
I have been at it for 45 years and find 66 lbs is my comfort zone for elk.  Don't let the bows shops tell you that you have to shoot heavy bows that shoot fast.  Go and test each bow and deside for yourself.  In a crunch be able you can pull and shoot comfortablely.
 
KE is definitely the key but if there is not much difference in KE I like to lean toward speed just because it shoots flatter. 


Bloodrunner...awesome site.
 
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