Another Shoot/Don\'t Shoot Question

[Swede]

On another thread we were asked if we would shoot a standing broadside cow. I said yes, in a flip way. What if the cow actually was trailing a first year calf? I will answer later, but want to see what your thoughts are first.

 

[Stringunner]

I did it once, and would really have to think twice before doing it a second time. Granted I did not see her calf before I shot, so I don\'t blame myself to bad, but it sucked having to scare the calf off several times while cutting up the cow. Definitely left an impression on me. I believe the calf was big enough to live on its own and there was a herd close by that I have no doubt it made its way back too but it didn\'t feel good in moment.

 

[Olympushunt]

I did it once, and would really have to think twice before doing it a second time. Granted I did not see her calf before I shot, so I don\'t blame myself to bad, but it sucked having to scare the calf off several times while cutting up the cow. Definitely left an impression on me. I believe the calf was big enough to live on its own and there was a herd close by that I have no doubt it made its way back too but it didn\'t feel good in moment.

I\'m sure that calf was fine. I was told ODFW sets the season after they feel calf survival won\'t be affected by harvests.
In 2009, opening morning, I was sitting in a stand in the Cascades. I didn\'t go east to hunt with dad that season since I took a week off because of an Alaska fishing opportunity I couldn\'t pass up earlier in June. I was by myself and in a stand I put up a decent hike away from any road. I knew I wouldn\'t have much hunting chances that season with all the things I had already done that year. An hour past first light here comes a nice big cow with her calf in tow. I kept hoping a bull was with them... the big one I had heard from an ODFW employee that was spotted in that area. He said it was one of the biggest bulls he had ever seen. He saw him from a helicopter doing census counts. Anyway....I watched that cow for 20 minutes hammering my salt licks. I knew at that point no bull was coming. I had to make up my mind. I looked at her....then looked at that nasty mountain between me and my truck...looked at her....at the mountain...at her..... That darn calf kept going up to the cow and nursing. Oh come on! I know they are fine to survive but they will take a free meal if one is around. I let them go. 15 yards broadside for 20 mins...lol. She got a free pass that day. I did learn something though. My buddy had been bringing in white salt blocks and I have always used the pink ones. I\'m not sure what the difference is to be honest. I just think bleach white sticks out really bad! Anyhow....I was thinking.....wow I finally will learn which one they prefer. They hit that area so hard that both are gone when I return but I would now get to see which one they went to first....which was the preferred candy. So she goes to the pink first....AH HA! Then she goes to the white....then back to the pink...then back to the white...back and forth. Hmmm.....it doesn\'t matter AT all. lol I have learned a ton just watching elk from a stand. It is really entertaining. I watched a calf deer once try to go \"bump\" under a small buck to find milk. He was NOT impressed! :haha:

 

[Deertick]

Pass.

 

[cnelk]

Over the years we have killed literally dozens of cow elk. Rifle / ML/Archery
Sometimes the cow is \'dry\', sometimes not. Sometimes the calf is with the cow, sometimes not.

Like mentioned above, the DOW manages herds so the life expectancy of young animals is good.

Would I shoot a cow with a calf in September? Yup
Just like I would shoot a cow with a calf in October / November / December.

 

[otcWill]

What Brad said. That is, of course, unless I wanted to shoot the calf. I put in for a cow tag this year on top of my usual ES OTC tag and I just might shoot a calf for the meat if I draw.

 

[cohunter14]

Another shooter here. I don\'t know if I would ever choose to shoot the calf in that situation, but I would definitely take the cow.

 

[iccyman001]

Already good explanations so I don\'t need to add.


I am shooting.

 

[OldMan]

No, I would pass. Before I get jumped on again, let me explain why, and this is my personal feelings. DON\'T compare it to yours.

I\'m a soft touch for animals. Though the decades of hunting it\'s always been hard for me to kill an animal. With that said it\'s extremely hard for me to kill a female of any species. A youngster is out of the question. A bull, boar, and bull is something I can do, but still feel sad when I do.

I watched a documentary on elk once. Of course it showed the birth of a calf, and the love the cow was given it. I don\'t for a minute believe animals don\'t have strong feelings for their young. You only have to watch them to see that. Anyway, in this program a grizzly caught wind of the cow and calf, and started to stalk them. You could see the panic on the cow and calf. She did her best to hide the calf, but it was scared, and kept getting up from it\'s hiding place. When the bear got too close the cow confronted it. Of course she had no way to fight off a grizzly, but she tried hard by constantly charging the bear. It was hopeless, and the bear finally grabbed the calf, and carried it away with the calf screaming, and the cow still chasing them. It broke my heart, and I could see the pain the cow was suffering. Why wouldn\'t she. She just lost her child. I believe if I was there I would have attacked the bear with a knife if it\'s the only weapon I had. Stupid of course, but those were the emotions running through me.

So, this brings me back to hunting for elk. The bear is a predator, and kill to survive. It has no feelings, but lives on instincts. Man is a predator, but has feelings, and few these days have to hunt to keep from starving. I certainly won\'t starve if I don\'t hunt. If I shoot a cow with a calf will the calf survive? Maybe, maybe not. Will the calf feel the loss of it\'s mother? I\'m sure it will. If I shoot a calf will the cow feel the loss? I\'d bet my life it will. Do I want to do that to either one of them? Absolutely not. If I shoot a bull will any other animal feel it\'s loss? No! Is that easier fore me to handle? Yes.

I understand herd control, and I know cows need to be taken. Lots of hunters have no problem doing that. I\'m just not one of them. I know you all thought I was some kind of hard ass, but I just showed you the real me. I\'m not the least bit ashamed of it. It\'s who I am.

 

[bowhunter]

Pete, I respect your decision. It is your choice.

I will shoot a cow if I need the meat. I will also shoot a doe whitetail at home in Iowa.

I will not shoot that said doe in the late part of the season. I once shot a doe on January 10th the last day of muzzy season. When I gutted her the two fawns inside her was still wiggling with their last bit of life. I will not shoot a doe post rut. That is my choice.

 

[elkmtngear]

What Luke and Brad have said is what I have always heard from everyone with experience...the calf will have a good chance of survival by the time September rolls around.

Fortunately, I\'ve never had to make the call...every cow I shot over the years was dry.

 

[Swede]

Friends I will shoot any good cow after the September 7th. with some exceptions. Calves are usually born from mid May to mid June. A few are born later. That makes the normal calf just 10-14 weeks old when the archery season opens. I just think waiting until after my birthday, to take a wet cow gives the calves a better chance to survive. It gives them a better chance to prepare for the coming winter. Really there is no magic date, as I can\'t tell precisely when they are born, and I have no idea what the coming winter will bring. All I can do is look at a calf and see its size and condition. I would pass on a cow anytime with an unusually small calf.

 

[Deertick]

I\'m a soft touch for animals.

I\'m right there with you, Pete. I\'ve killed enough stuff, and have enough in the freezer (usually) to give her a pass.

 

[OldMan]

I wish I could say the same thing John. My freezer is empty. One injury after another the last couple of years. If I can get just one more bull i\'d be set for quite awhile. Just me to feed.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

No, I would pass. Before I get jumped on again, let me explain why, and this is my personal feelings. DON\'T compare it to yours.

I\'m a soft touch for animals. Though the decades of hunting it\'s always been hard for me to kill an animal. With that said it\'s extremely hard for me to kill a female of any species. A youngster is out of the question. A bull, boar, and bull is something I can do, but still feel sad when I do.

I watched a documentary on elk once. Of course it showed the birth of a calf, and the love the cow was given it. I don\'t for a minute believe animals don\'t have strong feelings for their young. You only have to watch them to see that. Anyway, in this program a grizzly caught wind of the cow and calf, and started to stalk them. You could see the panic on the cow and calf. She did her best to hide the calf, but it was scared, and kept getting up from it\'s hiding place. When the bear got too close the cow confronted it. Of course she had no way to fight off a grizzly, but she tried hard by constantly charging the bear. It was hopeless, and the bear finally grabbed the calf, and carried it away with the calf screaming, and the cow still chasing them. It broke my heart, and I could see the pain the cow was suffering. Why wouldn\'t she. She just lost her child. I believe if I was there I would have attacked the bear with a knife if it\'s the only weapon I had. Stupid of course, but those are were emotions running through me.

So, this brings me back to hunting for elk. The bear is a predator, and kill to survive. It has no feelings, but lives on instincts. Man is a predator, but has feelings, and few these days have to hunt to keep from starving. I certainly won\'t starve if I don\'t hunt. If I shoot a cow with a calf will the calf survive? Maybe, maybe not. Will the calf feel the loss of it\'s mother? I\'m sure it will. If I shoot a calf will the cow feel the loss? I\'d bet my life it will. Do I want to do that to either one of them? Absolutely not. If I shoot a bull will any other animal feel it\'s loss? No! Is that easier fore me to handle? Yes.

I understand herd control, and I know cows need to be taken. Lots of hunters have no problem doing that. I\'m just not one of them. I know you all thought I was some kind of hard ass, but I just showed you the real me. I\'m not the least bit ashamed of it. It\'s who I am.

Very well stated Pete! Exactly they way I feel.

I\'m often questioned on how I can have such a big heart when it comes to animals and yet I hunt. Your explanation says it all.