Big vs Monster Bull Elk Difference????????

B

Blacktail Slayer

New member
Dec 30, 2012
8
I have a few questions for those with experience hunting and/or scouting bulls in the 340-360 class and 370+ class range.  The main reason for this topic is not to ask for locations of 340+ bulls but to gain knowledge, tips, tricks, advice or whatever in hunting large bulls to help out my friend who will be drawing the Wenaha archery branch bull tag this year.  Does anyone notice any different behaviors between 340-360 class vs 370+ bulls? What about flat Nation Forest land vs big deep and steep Wilderness areas?  Any behavior or locations differences between both groups pre-rut vs rut?  Do you hunt 340-360class vs 370+ bulls differently? PM’s are welcome.

Here are some of my thoughts and ways we hunt.  Please feel free to throw out any advice if you think it would help in harvesting a 340+ bull.  Dream would be to get a 370+ bull.

Big old bulls are unique and you have to adjust your hunting accordingly to hunt them.  Besides being older, they're wiser, heavier, more mellow, slower, and much more deliberate in their actions.  Herd bulls won’t always be the largest antlered bull in the area.  The fact that they got 5, 6, 7+ years-old is an indication that they found a safe way to exist and avoid hunters and predators. 

Every day should be spent hiking into the locations where we plan to glass or listen to elk without letting them know our presence before daylight.  We hunt till dark before hiking back to camp to take advantage of every minute of shooting light. 

I have noticed most bright nights with half a moon or more will be from September 1-15th.  Most dark nights with 24% or less moon will be from September 18-24th.  New moon is September 23rd.  Would the moon phase play any role in when you would put in for your vacation time if you could not hunt the entire archery season? 

I have always had better luck with elk being active during daylight when there is no or little moon light at night.  There would still be good daytime activity if there was thick cloud cover even during a full moon.  The problem I see with no or little moon the last week of archery season this year would be that the big bulls would have cows with them that could ruin a stalk or make it extremely hard to call in.  On the other hand it would make for a very exciting season with lots of daylight activity and encounters.

My little experience hunting the Wenaha Wilderness is that the elk will use the tops of ridges say the first half of season.  This could be because of food, flat terrain, and little to no human pressure.  As season goes on they tend to come up in elevation less and start spending more time in the bottom of the canyons/drainages.  This could be from food source getting burned out on top, more cover at the bottom, cooler temps at bottom, flat terrain for rut, etc.  Has anyone else noticed this?  Would you expect to not be able to glass bulls in the wilderness as much come later in season and have to go mainly by sound? 

We will most likely glass, listen, and make silent stalks on bulls for the majority of the time.  Calling will consist of cow, calf, with occasional spike/small bull bugle with callers 50+ yards behind hunter.  Things like making noise like a herd is casually walking around, raking of trees, or walking away from bull while calling may be used in certain situations.  Our goal is not to intimidate herd or large bulls with bugles they have never heard before. I believe most bulls have a pretty good idea about who his competition is in the area.  Big bulls have individually recognizable voices just like we as human do. 

I think a key to successfully put a tag on a 340+ class bull is patience and knowing when not to hunt. This may mean backing out and entering area where bull is from different angle because of wind conditions or cover.  It may mean even waiting to the next day for the bull to be in the right stalking location or wind conditions. 

One thing that is being considered is only having one caller go with hunter and the other go off to try and locate a large bull in a different area. 

Any help or ideas are appreciated.
 
well a trophy is always nice but i pay alot for out of state tags and with a bow to me anything is a trophy now if i strike on a big bull great but there is no way in hell i will pass a shot on a good bull only to eat tag soup. Now am i going to let the spike walk while waiting for the bull to break cover of course but if a satellite 290- 300 bull comes in he is getting a dirt nap and the big dog will live on. dont get caught up in the T.V. land hunting crap any animal with a bow is a trophy a small 4 by 4  a cow  spike bull or  400 plus set your sights to high and youll never enjoy the actual hunt. Now that being said there is something to herd management im not saying you have to shoot the first legal thing you see, but dont pass on the first day what you would shoot on the last. personally i pay 600 for a tag if a good bull  comes by im not gonna hesitate.
 
This hunt takes place in Oregon and we are all residents of Oregon.  This is a once-in-a-lifetime tag for residents if you are lucky.  Residents new to hunting would have to wait over 100 years before drawing this tag and it is known for monster bulls.  My friend is perfectly happy with going home with tag still in pocket if he can't at least put it on a 340+ bull which I think we can do from experience in this unit.  I just don't have that much experience really keeping track and learning the behavior of old bulls in the 370+ range.  I helped another guy on this hunt several years ago that passed up three 340 class bulls in one week but then ended up harvested a 320 class bull by the end of his hunt.  Just trying to pick up some tips from people who have experience and knowledge how old 370+ bull act pre-rut and during the rut(archery season). 
 
I am not sure, but most the bulls you mentioned sound like they would be the herd bull.  BugleElk gave a great seminar on hunting the herd bull at some expos this year.  Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uszcTU1DbXE
 
Seems to me that during the early season the big bulls let the younger bulls spend their energy rounding the cows up for them. Then when it is time they come in and run the younger bulls off. I watched that happen last year, a 300" bull was tending 50 cows in an area prior to peak rut. A week later a 350-360 bull came in out of the deep canyons and took all the herd.


Don't let the "tag" drive him crazy. In my party we have even said when you have that "tag" it becomes a curse. We have had some big disappointments, but when we reflected on the season it was still fun. Don't allow high expectations to get in the way of the experience.
 
I have noticed the same thing with Roosevelts.  It seems like numerous peoplesay those monster bulls should not be called at period.  Just glass, learn their pattern, and then sneak in for the shot.

We all know how fun this is going to be even if the tag is not punched.  You need to go all out for a hunt like this. ;D
Bowtechshooter said:
Seems to me that during the early season the big bulls let the younger bulls spend their energy rounding the cows up for them. Then when it is time they come in and run the younger bulls off. I watched that happen last year, a 300" bull was tending 50 cows in an area prior to peak rut. A week later a 350-360 bull came in out of the deep canyons and took all the herd.


Don't let the "tag" drive him crazy. In my party we have even said when you have that "tag" it becomes a curse. We have had some big disappointments, but when we reflected on the season it was still fun. Don't allow high expectations to get in the way of the experience.
Click to expand...
 
So this is what I know about big Wenaha bulls that was told to me by an outfitter who guides there. He said When the rut hits and the mature bullsget "cowed up" the go to the canyon bottoms. He said it is VERY difficult with a bow (not impossible) to kill  one of those 370-400" bulls do to the fact that there are lots of cows to compete with.  With that said, I think the biggest hurdle for many hunters in the Wenaha it the vast rugged nature of the area. If you can get to the monster bulls there, your chances get much better.


Depending on the temperament of the bulls, glassing and spot and stock may be a great option.


For me, I love calling in bulls. I do know in different areas elk will react to calling differently. Places that have huge herds of cows (like many in NE Oregon) calling can be tough. If a big bull has a smaller group of cows, your calling success goes up.


In such rugged country, a methodical approach should be observed planning your moves carefully. You dont want to spend all day getting on a big bull and blow him out of the canyon by taking the wrong approach or being winded. Use your glass and ears to formulate a plan.

Many times bulls will bugle and run, pushing their cows, and out distancing the hunter. Many think that they are calling wrong or doing something wrong since the elk keep moving away. That may sometimes be true, but many times the elk already have their mind made up on their destination for the day and no amount of calling will change that. That is when you must stay tenacious, and keep following the herd, but be careful. They will eventually bed where they feel safe and rest for the day. This is when you wait out the thermals, make a game plan to the best approach angle and execute your plan. Get in CLOSE to the herd, (within a hundred yards at least) and make a couple quiet cow calls. When the bull responds, hammer him with a challenge bugle. You may have some back and forth bugling with the bull, but make sure each time he bugles, cut him off. You may also have to rake a tree with a stick to put him over the edge. Watch out for the 340" satellite bulls though, they may blow it for you ;) I would love to be able to hunt the Wenaha. Good luck!
 
Dirk,

Thanks for the great advice.  There was several days the year I helped another friend hunt the Wenaha were the elk moved late afternoon and never responded to calls like you mentioned.  We just happened to play it safe with no calling and were in the wrong place when they would leave their bedrooms.  The 340 satellite bull issue is very true.  The 320 class bull was the actual herd bull that defended his cows from the 340 and 330 class bulls.  Goes to show that it is not always the largest antlered bull that gets the cows.  It pays to be mean, tough, and aggressive in the elk world.
 
The tuffer terrain the bigger the bulls, my barbers business partner drew that unit last year avid archery guy, but did rifle on his hunt. He said that unit is tuff as hell, killed a 360 bull, but there was bigger one that had been stalking for a while, they just never had a shot. Like someone else had said with the canyons, they where at the top of one watching the base and the bull would not come out of the tall timber until the shot was gone... Good luck on your hunt!
 
Where I am in Catron county,NM  those 400+ bulls avoid all crowds and such. Sneak off with small bunches of cows like a sat. bulls ,only to go unnoticed by most.
Sometimes a herd bull is 370 + but they avoid the limelight too. Smaller herds.
We can watch them do their copy of BIG ones and get in on them, sometimes.
340 bulls are about average for here.

Me,
  I passed on way too many 340 bulls after bigger,with tag soup to show for the last few yrs. And hunted cows after not drawing bull tag last 2.
Now I'll be realistic and take a nice 6x6 or big 5x5 and call it good.
Besides I get to go out my door and look for those elusive Monster bulls year round.

Good luck to you in your OR hunt!
 
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