Bite & Blow Vs The Diaphragm

[Swede]

It seems that elk calling experts universally use diaphragms and grunt tubes for calling elk. They are handier, more versatile and you can carry several diaphragms in a tiny pouch. Newer hunters have trouble making good sounds with them, so we advise practice, practice, practice. Several of us on this forum including John Fitzgerald and myself believe some \"expert\" hunters have over complicated elk sounds and have given elk unreal levels of communication ability. Some people have ascribed a complex language to elk. I agree they have communication abilities, and we can call it a language, but it is far simpler than some have claimed. If John and I are right, does it not stand to reason that except for an insignificant advantage in convenience, the bite and blow calls are nearly as good as the diaphragm? The last part is Swede\'s hypothesis. I will let John speak for himself on that.
Assuming we are right, and the elk language is far simpler and different sounds may have several \"meanings\", depending on the circumstances; how much of handicap would an expert have if they had a couple of bite and blow cow calls, and one bite and blow bugle to hunt with? If the expert could do alright with bite and blow, why should a new elk hunter focus on learning a diaphragm?

 

[iccyman001]

I can play both sides of the fence with this topic, so I will.

I have a custom bite and blow that I used last year and love. I will also use it for the rest of my life.
It\'s perfect because I just cant mess up. It\'s very user friendly. Now here is where it lags.
I can make 1 and only 1 noise. To me, this custom is a bit higher pitched, so the one and only call I am making is a immature cow.
Now, there are also manufactured, over the counter, available to anyone bite and blows that you can change the pitch. That is great, but it\'s not realistic for quick changes. So lets say I want to do some herd talk. I can only go as fast as I can change it which may not sound realistic, creates lots of movement and it\'s a pain. OR, you can have two bite and blows that are set up, but now you have more stuff dangling around your neck. That can be dangerous for a bow hunter. Another reason these calls can be a potential issue is from someone else using them to educate the elk in a bad way. For example: Person X buys call Y at Walmart. Well for the past 3 years, one million call Ys were sold annually. Well, in OTC areas, the elk can hear call Y and associate that with danger.

Now to diaphragms. Yes, people are still able to buy these same calls, but give 5 guys this call and I bet all 5 sound different.
Additionally, with a diaphragm (some), you have the ability to sound like a bull, cow, or calf. This gives you a chance to make the right sound for the right situation, unlike the bite and blow that gives you one. Finally, the diaphragm is not in your way. Whether using a bow or gun, you can move as you wish with no issue.
Lets talk the downfall of the diaphragm and that\'s learning to use them in the first place. It takes hard work, but once you have some calls down, you become dangerous.



Me, I like and will continue to use both. It\'s up to the new person to pick what best suites them.
I think that callers preach the diaphragms verse bite and blows because of the reasons I mentioned above.

 

[Tdiesel]

diaphragm call is very universal and the ability to make sounds while being at full draw. That\'s the advantage. That being said I actually prefer a bite and blow for certain sounds I can make these with a diaphragm but the tone is better on an open reed if that makes sense. On the other hand I believe diaphragms make certain calls have a better tone so its really just another tool. I prefer to have multiple tools in my bag rather than just one. I can probably call in elk with either one.

 

[Jaquomo]

Assuming you mean an open reed call, vs the little bite calls like Don Laubach used to use around the Jackson Elk Refuge? The ones with a little rubber band that you bite down on? I had a couple of those in the day and they used to work before every Tom, Dick and Harry started running around in the woods calling. Easy to use, but seem really cheesy-sounding compared to what you can get with other types.

I like diaphragms and open reed calls. My friend who makes wood open reeds (Trinity Game Calls) makes one that has that nasally sound I can\'t get with a diaphragm. So when I\'m doing my curiosity setups to call bulls, I use two different sizes of his open reeds, a Jacobsen Temptress, plus two different diaphragms to get multiple sounds.

 

[mtnmutt]

Diaphragm calls are more convenient to issue a sound on the fly and they minimize a hunter\'s movement. These calls may also be easier to throw a sound away from a caller over their shoulder away from an approaching elk. I could never master this technique.

2 years ago, Travis of Wapiti River Outdoors made me some junior diaphragms. I can now make cow and calf sounds, however, I prefer my bite & blow calls. I tend to mess up my diaphragm reeds when storing them inside my cheek in between calls.

I use open reed calls. If they get wet, they stop working. I carry multiples of the same model in case I cannot dry off the reed. I carry more than one model because one day one works better than the other.

I put emotion into my calling. I feel the sound. I vary the volume and pitch. IMHO, using any call on autopilot is a huge mistake.

I do not call if I hear an elk approaching, therefore, I get by sorta with open reed calls. I can make a nervous bark without a call. I still take my diaphragm calls. Versatility is key. If my open reed calls do not work to bring elk to me, I pull out the diaphragms to use.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

I like to refer to them as internal vs. external reeds. Internal being the small flat reeds that fit in the roof of your mouth. External is everything else.

Truth is I use external cow calls more often than internal for producing cow sounds. And I always use an internal reed for bugles.

It\'s easier to learn simple cow sounds with external than internal. Only problem is you must give up a hand. In my opinion, both have the ability to produce a wide range of sounds. I like to keep one of Troy\'s \"bigger\" sounding reeds in my mouth at all times.(ie Orange Enrager or Secret Weapon). If I need switch to cow sounds I can just grab an external that is clipped to my pack.

For bugles, the internal reed is the most versatile. You can\'t give the same quality of sounds with an external bugle.

The elk language is simple. A bugle is a bugle, a growl is a growl, chuckles are chuckles, and a bark is a bark. Each have a unique expression but mean the exact same every time it\'s given. However, buying into the simple language does not mean you should sacrifice the quality of your sounds.

My 2-cents!

 

[Tdiesel]

guess I was calling my open reed call a bite n blow I use open reed calls I guess.

 

[Swede]

Aren\'t all open reed calls pretty much bite & blow or just blow, like Abe and Sons?
I think we agree that the bite and blow/blow calls are easy and many make good sounds. The diaphragm is more versatile and easy to carry in your mouth.
Elk language is not all that complicated and either can get the job done if used wisely. Troy from Glacier Country Hunting Calls has the four basic calls explained in our archives. I think most bite and blow bugles will make all of the bull sounds. You may have to play around to make a good challenge bugle, but putting a growl in the call is your own growl voice resonating through the tube. Troy has a great cow call, and there are several others out there you can use with it for some variety. In addition, there are several other threads, that are easy, and will give the newer elk hunter simple, straight forward calls they can use to be effective.
In the end we should not be intimidated by the implied need to make some mysterious perfect call, or the nonsense that calling is for the experts.

 

[elkmtngear]

I use both for cow sounds...soft cow sounds are definitely better with a diaphragm for me.

If I want volume, I have a Knight and Hale open reed call (that has called in a slug of bulls and cows for me over the Years)

For bugling, I like the diaphragm...simply because it\'s easier to \"mimic\" a bull with it (I have more \"fine\" control over the tones).

 

[Guest]

I Personally think the elk language is far simpler than we think. Elk make the same sounds but with different levels of egression. Once you learn that you are well on your way.

Now onto the calls. I personally mostly use mouth reeds but I also carry a couple external reeds. You need to be versatile and go with whatever sounds the ELK want on that given day ! If your standing on a ridge and you get zero response from a cow sound given from a mouth reed then given a external a try and let the elk decide. Personally it has happened to me many times where one or the other will get a response. I will use the quiet location type calls like cow sounds before I even reach for my bugle tube and rip out a location bugle !!

Now is there a best one ? You bet there is !! The best one is the one that works best for you.

Now there are problems with both types. Mouth reeds can be hard for some folks and many give up thinking they are to hard. They do take practice and you must stick with it to become better ! For me mouth reeds are very easy now but the first year I tried using one I went a whole elk season and could not make any sounds at all with them !! But I persevered through it and the next year I called in 8 different bulls. I was hooked for life and I haven\'t looked back !!

Now mouth reeds like I have stated are very easy for me but external calls are harder as I do not practice much with them. That is the key....Practice ! I even incorporated an external cow call into my cow routine at the world elk calling championships in 2014 !! For that I did a lot of practicing but I used in very sparingly as they tend to foul up quickly.

So I would say use both and try to give both the practice they deserve and you\'ll all be better callers with a little hard work and practice.

Good luck to all.

Trav

 

[Baby Huey]

I have both types of calls. For bowhunting the diaphragm is much easier to use for a shooter that needs to stop an elk for a shot. The bite and blows usually are not as easy to operate hands free, but are good calls as well.

As far as elk language, there are different takes on it from avg hunters, professional callers and others. One guy has his theories on elk language and he is a wildlife biologist named Chris Roe. He has many years of living with elk, videoing them and coming up with his theory on their language. I\'ve heard his seminars at the CPW main headquartes in Denver and at other venues. He recently did a seminar here in Denver a few days ago, and I\'ll post it here (YouTube link) so you can use it as a tool. Not everyone will agree, but I tend to be open to his analysis after all of the time and hours he has spent among elk, observed and put into practice. It is over an hour video of the seminar and it is not all about calling but two different people\'s styles of hunting elk, but calling is what Chris does and how he likes to hunt elk. So, give it a view and add it to your knowledge base.

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[cnelk]

I also use both types.
I found that external reed calls can produce a louder call than a diaphragm.
But that may be a problem limited to me!

I have used a hand held cow call \'hands free\'
I have attached it to the top of my right wrist, with the mouth piece toward my body.
I can be latched on my string, ready to draw and still call

Improvise!!!

But dang, I just gotta put a plug in for the Black Widow domed call from WRO.
That thing rocks!
I showed one to Deertick the other day and he bought one, so did our 3rd WY guy.

 

[iccyman001]

I\'ll definitely check that clip out.
Thanks, Roman.