Bugle octave change

[SteveR]

Hi from Vancouver BC Canada. Just joined.
Been hunting 45 years, but just started Elk hunting 2 years ago. I'm hooked.
I was successful last year, but all the calling and tactics were by another, and so I'm doing everything I can to become more self sufficient. I love the UEH course, so much useful practical, easy to learn info.
I also bought the Elk101 call kit, with tube, 3 diagphram calls, and the external. Been practicing with all of them...watch a module, practice, watch a module again, more practice.
Contender seems to work best for me so far. Driving my wife nuts! She runs around closing all the doors and windows. Lol! I'm feeling confident with cow calling, but Im struggling with the bugle. Is there a technique with tongue pressure, tongue movement, or air, to make that smooth pure sounding octave "flip" on the way up, and the octave "rollover" on the way down?

 

[Ol Arky]

Welcome to the site...
:welcome:
Can't help all my octaves are gone but I bet someone else with give a bit of help...

 

[DTP]

Welcome to the site!!!!! We are glad to have you here [emoji106]

Where do you think you?re struggling as far as the bugle goes? Sometimes I think people over analyze bugle perfection.  I?ve heard people who ?bugle? better than bulls. 

If you?d like you can post a clip and we can offer advice!


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[SteveR]

Thanks. Just found the Rocky Jacobsen youtube on reed calling. He gives a better explanation of the mechanics, and discusses the use of your voice. Need a lot more practice before I can share. Lol!
I get a smooth gradual transition from low to hi without the tube, but with the tube it just sounds the same..no octave "flip" up or down at the end. When I listen to Corey I hear the octave change more distinctly/sharply.
Maybe not enough backpressure in the tube?


Does a reed have to get "broken in"?
How can you tell when a reed is worn out? The latex in the AllStar is looking a bit stretched.

 

[DTP]

Thanks. Just found the Rocky Jacobsen youtube on reed calling. He gives a better explanation of the mechanics, and discusses the use of your voice. Need a lot more practice before I can share. Lol!
I get a smooth gradual transition from low to hi without the tube, but with the tube it just sounds the same..no octave "flip" up or down at the end. When I listen to Corey I hear the octave change more distinctly/sharply.
Maybe not enough backpressure in the tube?


Does a reed have to get "broken in"?
How can you tell when a reed is worn out? The latex in the AllStar is looking a bit stretched.

With some of the loosely stretched reeds I can take them out of the package and get right to it. 

Sometimes with the latex that is a bit more tight, I break them in a little until I find a sweet spot. 

I can tell when mine need to be replaced because the noises start to go! You?ll seem them start to weaken or get choppy. 

Based off what you?re saying it just sounds like some more practice time and one day it?ll just hit.  To me it sounds like some tongue adjustments and transitions, not so much how much air is being blown.


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[cohunter14]

I wouldn?t say there?s much of a ?flip? up or down. Maybe you are hearing Corey doing a lip bawl with his bugle, so it sounds more grumbly at the beginning? That?s something that comes with practice. Keep working on taking the reed from low to high and back to low. Once you learn to control that with your tongue, making a basic location bugle isn?t too difficult.

 

[87TT]

I have found that if I record my call and play it back it sounds pretty good. When I have the tube I can't hear it the same as listening to it played back.

 

[joegiglianm@gmail.com]

Steve, just something to remember is that there really is no ?standard? bugle. Every bull sounds different. Some with real pretty musical tones. Some that bawl and some that scream. And there are plenty that sound flat out horrible. Some of the WORST bugles I have ever heard came from elk. (That is why I tell people to always check out a response, even if you think it sounds horrible and must be another hunter. I have killed several elk that way) Shoot, I have whistled a high pitch whistle with my mouth to locate and had bulls respond.
What I am trying to tell you is not to get hung up on thinking you have to sound a particular way. I think it is more important to understand and be able to convey the attitude and emotions of a bull. How to sound small. How to sound social or just responsive. How to sound like a moving bull bugling to keep his herd informed. How to escalate a situation or sound pissed and aggressive and how to challenge.
When you learn those attitudes and emotions, you are talking the talk and not just blowing a bugle.
Once you get the hang of controlling your call?low to high...high to low?adding voice?, then get on youtube, listen to elk herd vocalizations and try to mimic the bulls you hear. I have found that copying a bull in a calling sequence really ticks them off and can escalate a situation in your favor, so it is a good technique to take into the woods. Good luck and have fun!

 

[SteveR]

I think what i was doing was starting low and increasing tongue pressure gradually, so the tone went up smoothly. When I listen to examples, Corey and Rocky are cranking up the tongue pressure in 3 or 4 stages, so the octave change is more pronounced.
Recording myself and playing back does sound different ( and better) than what I hear when I bugle.
Also realized I had the reed a bit too far back in my mouth so had to use the fatter part of my tongue and blow harder to get sound...not as much control that way...and dont have to use as much air with it more forward.
60 days to practice, learn to mimic, and then get in the bush and see if I can get one to talk to me.
Thanks all for the guidance!

 

[mckayam1]

I felt the same way.  I practiced a little everyday.  Even if it was just a few Bugels.  It's been 60 days so far and things just started clicking.  Takes time, I just keep listening to Corey's chapter on calling and then try to mimic.  You'll get there!

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[WW]

Some people just try TOOOOOOO hard. If they don't get the right sound, they blow harder. Tongue pressure is more important. You can achieve many different sounds with the same amount of air simply by the amount of pressure you apply with your tongue.

Without a reed in you mouth, try exhaling air lightly. Then gradually start applying tongue pressure upward until you seal the air flow off. Eventually you'll find the right amount of tongue pressure and air flow to change those octives you are talking about. And your wife won't have to listen to you practicing! LOL!!!!!!!