Genetics

[Swede]

How much of a factor due you think genetics play into mature bull antler size?
Here are a few of the things that could relate, that I have observed over the years.
In the area where I hunt, there used to be some large herd bull. It was the best area in Oregon to kill a large bull. A 350 bull could normally be seen once or twice a season, just 20 years ago. I have not seen one that large for over 10 years now. They are rare that will go 320. Most herd bulls are under 300 and some are barely 200 P&Y or B&C points. The #1 trophy unit in Oregon (Wenaha) used to have only small spindly timed bulls. Now that it has been a draw unit, with very few tags offered, there are a lot of big bulls in that area. The same is true for the Mt. Emily unit, but it takes about 15 years to draw a tag to hunt in one.
If that was all there was to consider, you would think genetics were not much of a factor. On the contrary, I have noticed that the tops are small on one side, of bulls in the area where I killed a cow this year. Also the thirds are usually small on Oregon Rocky Mountain bulls. These appear to be genetic characteristics.
How much of a factor do you think genetics figure into antler size? What have you observed or read that pertains?

 

[WW]

Just because the big bull was knocked off doesn\'t mean his genes weren\'t passed on from generation to generation on down the line. More than likely, if everyone would quite killing the small bulls and give them a chance to grow up, we would all have larger, mature bulls to hunt.

 

[iccyman001]

I think genetics definitely has a big part on antler growth, but I think food and water will play a huge roll in their size.

A bull with great genetics I believe will not see full potential if their have a drought there or a crappy food source.
Take that same bull and give him a year with plenty of rain and lush green vegetation, I think he grows them extra large!

 

[cohunter14]

I think genetics can play a roll, but like WW mentioned, a lot more has to do with letting bulls reach maturity. The number of hunters in areas seem to dictate a lot more about the size of the bulls than anything else in my experience.

 

[Jaquomo]

In the area I hunted for almost 40 years, bulls that were allowed to grow old got big. Some very big. Then the units got overrun and it was uncommon to see many over 300, even on private land. Most bulls killed are young raghorns. But the ones that do manage to live still get BIG.

Where I hunt now, the biologist told me that average age of bulls taken is 3.5-4.5, compared to 2.5-3.5 in the other area. This is largely because of the difficulty of hunting, low harvest, so the bulls get to live a year or two longer Every year there are some whoppers killed.

Genetics plays a much bigger role in determining antler configuration (ie.. short thirds, bulls maturing as big 5x6s, maturing as huge 5x5s, etc..) than with overall antler size - at least within the very short time period we\'re talking about. That\'s more a factor of age and nutrition. Sure, there will be some of the same age with bigger racks, just as some mature humans of the same age are taller than others. We used to see 4x raghorns and spindly 6x bulls of the same age when I hunted the private ranch. Would the spindly 6x bull of 2.5 years likely have better antler genes as an individual, sure. Same with any antlered animals. But across an entire population spectrum I don\'t believe humans have been hunting elk on a massive scale long enough to select for smaller racked-mature animals. We\'re really only talking about a 50 year period, with the huge pressure coming during the past 20. That sort of selection takes hundreds, maybe thousands of years.

 

[cnelk]

Blame it on global warming....

 

[Deertick]

That sort of selection takes hundreds, maybe thousands of years.

Probably 10s of thousands of generations with a consistent variable like hunting, warming, cooling, etc.

 

[Swede]

It appears that there is a consensus that gross genetic changes, based on local populations is overstated, but I see what appears to be family characteristics in certain locations. That seems right to me anyway.