How many years before knowing your area?

[americanbwana]

Maybe not the best title, but how many years do you spend in a new area before really having a good idea of where to look and where not to look?

I know some of you have in the same area for decades. Why did you choose that area, and why do you go back?

And yet another scenario. Our newest member, let\'s call him ElkKnob, researches an area :rtfm: and see\'s it has better than average archery success. He then spends the summer map scouting, and is even able to get one or two scouting trips in before the season starts. During his trips, he see\'s lots of elk, mostly cows. Yet come hunting season he is disappointed because of either pressure, no elk sign, or what ever . After the season he has to decide if he wants to go back to the same area, or look for another area. So here is the question. Is spending a single season in a new area enough? If not, how many years should be considered a \'good investment\' before moving on? :dk:

AB

 

[cnelk]

Lets take this discussion just a tad more definitive.
The new area you are hunting is OTC.

There is NO WAY I would rely on harvest success stats to research a new area. There are much better options to use.
I would use herd populations & objectives/bull cow ratios/and leftover tags available.

So now you have determined a new area, the first thing I would do is commit myself to that area for a minimum of 3 consecutive years.
If you cant do that, you are wasting your time.

There are just too many variables and obstacles to get to know an area.

When ElkKnob is doing his scouting/hunting, he needs to ask himself WHY he is seeing elk sign and when he isnt seeing elk sign ask WHY.
There are reasons for both.

 

[OldMan]

My answer may be different from what you\'re asking, but all I have is my own experience. I have to give you a little history.

My dad became friends during the war (WW2) with someone from Colorado. They kept in contact after the war. The fellow from Colorado who\'s name was Guy invited my dad and me to Colorado to go elk hunting. My dad was a house painter with his own business, and could take time off anytime he wanted to. We came to Colorado for the first time in 1952 when I was 10 years old. We stayed with Guy in his house, but also in a cabin he owned in elk country. We stayed there 3 weeks the first time. We scouted for a week before elk season. My dad got an elk the first time on the last day of the hunt. It was then that I decided I loved elk hunting. After that first trip we started to stay for a whole month. Always hunting the same unit, because of the cabin. We continued to do this together until he passed away in the 80\'s.

At that point Guy told me I could continue to come myself if I wanted to. So, I did. It was terrible at first being there without my dad. I knew he would want me to continue, so that kept me going. I never changed units, because I dedicated all my hunts to my dad, and it just seemed I had to stay in the unit we hunted together, and where he taught me how to hunt.

Although i\'ve tried other units for mule deer. My elk hunts have always been in the same unit. Now you know why. To say i\'ve gotten to know the unit would be an understatement. You could blindfold me, and drop me from a helicopter anywhere in the unit, and i\'d know where I was. It\'s a very rugged unit, and has a ton of deep timber. Most hunters will describe it as a hard unit to hunt. I won\'t argue with that. The elk herd there is not big. You\'ll get no trophy\'s there, but it has some nice elk. You have to know where they go when pressured, or you\'ll swear there\'s no elk there. They\'re there. Trust me.

Unit 481









See the moose

 

[ORelksniper]

Still Hunter, that is some big beautiful country you get to chase elk in. You\'re a lucky man.

AB, you described my new area elk hunt last year to a \"T\". I scouted it throughout the summer and found enough cows, calves, and spikes to get me excited. The major problem, and the reason I won\'t go back, was the number of hunters in the area. Absolutely could not get away from them and the elk had left. So tell me, am I crazy for not investing more time in that unit?

 

[Swede]

Still Hunter demonstrates the advantages of spending many years in an area. Over that time I am sure he has determined where the best, most reliable places are to find elk. He knows where hunting is a low percentage proposition. Still hunter could take you out and rightly say \"sit here and you will get a shot at an elk.\" Hunting new areas is always an adventure, but not often productive. I used to consider it took 5 years to know an area well enough to put the odds in your favor. That will not put you in the same position as Still Hunter, but you are going to be better that average.
I also agree with Brad. If you are in even marginal elk country, and you like hunting there, hunt it for three seasons and learn as much as you can. After a while that marginal country reveals hot spots for elk and you can take advantage of them. I hunt marginal country and I like it that way. I don\'t hunt the whole area, just certain spots I have discovered over many years of hunting.
Let me add that years of hunting are not the only factor to consider. How many days were your hunts? Did you spend significant time scouting the area before, during or after your hunt? How did you hunt the area? If you hunt the same ridge and basin five days in a row, you may not have five days experience or knowledge of the area. You could end up with one day of experience 5 times over.
I started hunting a new sub portion of my area years ago. In the evening I started walking up an old, closed logging road. I was having my doubts about the place. There was not a track less than 3 months old, and the droppings were bleached and dry. I was thinking, well this is a waste of time and energy, when I saw a fresh set of tracks. A little farther along I saw a water hole that had a dusty, well worn elk trail coming into it. That location did not have a lot of elk in it, but the next day I could hunt it , there was one less before night fall. After I shot that bull, no more elk came around all of that hunting season, but the next season there were quite a few there.

 

[Swede]

Or Elk Sniper. The area you hunted has had far too many hunters for years. There are some good spots over there, and the success rate is average, but most good locations have a tree stand at them. I would recommend you find some new water holes by scouting early or find a new area. If you like the area or you are tied to it for some reason, then go over there and spend a good week seeking niches where other hunters don\'t often go. Good luck.

 

[cohunter14]

I will echo what has been said...3 years to learn an area well, but every single year after that you should know it even better. OR Elk Sniper: what Swede said. Either choose a new area or dedicate yourself to finding where the crowds aren\'t. You do have an advantage in that you know where everyone hunts already. Find out where they aren\'t and you might get yourself a honey hole.

 

[Deertick]

Interesting conversation. I\'m listening.

 

[OldMan]

I\'d like to make a comment on scouting. You can certainly learn a lot by scouting before the season starts. You can learn a lot more by scouting during the season. I scout all hunting seasons. I want to see what the elk are doing when hunters are there. Where do they go when pressured? Where do they bed down when pressured, and where do they go when there first bedding area is pressured? Where are their feeding areas when pressured?

After awhile you\'ll see patterns they follow every year. That\'s why it\'s important to stay in an area a long time. You should be scouting more than you hunt. Even during a hunt. You\'re not always scouting for your present hunt, but your future hunts.

You can\'t kill an elk if you can\'t find them. If you can\'t kill them after you find them? That\'s another topic.

 

[cohunter14]

One other thing I want to throw out there on this topic is that a lot depends on how much time you spend in the woods as well. If you are an archery hunter and spend an entire month hunting, you are going to learn your area a lot quicker than a weekend warrior will. The reason I mentioned three years is I was thinking three years of rifle hunting, in which case I typically spend 5-7 days in the woods. One thing that definitely comes into play is the weather. If you have one year where it is cold and snowing sideways for a couple days and another year where it\'s 70+ degrees everyday, the elk patterns could be different. Same thing goes with water availability, one year could be dry and another it could be soaking wet. All things to consider, but I would feel very confident in having an area pretty well figured out after three straight years of hunting there. On that note, I think hunting them consecutive years matters as well. There is a lot that your brain will forget if you skip around :wtf:

 

[americanbwana]

So I\'m hearing it takes at least 3 archery seasons, or 15 - 30 days in the field to really get a good idea about your area.

During that time you want to spend plenty of time ScHunting (Scouting / Hunting), looking for those areas where people ain\'t and elk are. Those may be close to the road (drive by elk), or way off in the distance.

When ScHunting don\'t keep going through the same barren spots. Instead explore a little bit. Who knows you could find a new hot spot that was once \'dry\'.

Does this about sum it up? Or am I missing something?

 

[OldMan]

So I\'m hearing it takes at least 3 archery seasons, or 15 - 30 days in the field to really get a good idea about your area.

During that time you want to spend plenty of time ScHunting (Scouting / Hunting), looking for those areas where people ain\'t and elk are. Those may be close to the road (drive by elk), or way off in the distance.

When ScHunting don\'t keep going through the same barren spots. Instead explore a little bit. Who knows you could find a new hot spot that was once \'dry\'.

Does this about sum it up? Or am I missing something?

3 years is one opinion. Certainly not mine. I\'d say it takes much much longer. After 60 years in a unit I still learn new things.

 

[cohunter14]

Yes, there is always learning going on no matter how long you have hunted an area. But the initial question was how long until you have a good idea on the area. I would say 3 years, assuming you are covering new ground while you are hunting.

 

[OldMan]

It\'s a lot to learn in 3 years Derek. Then again. We all may have a different definition of what knowing a unit is.

 

[cohunter14]

Yes, I am not referring to hunting an entire unit. But if you choose an area to hunt and hunt it for three straight years, you should have a pretty good idea on what the elk will do there. I\'m not saying you will be an expert, but to give an area a fair shot, I think you should give a minimum of three years to the area. You will know a lot more in three years than you will just hunting it one year and moving on.

 

[OldMan]

I\'ll give you that, but what happens if unexpected hunters come in to your area, and blows out the elk. Something that hasn\'t happen in the last three years. What\'s your backup plan? You\'ve put all your eggs in one basket.

That\'s why I feel knowing a unit means having multiple backup plans. That takes time, and I don\'t feel three years is enough time.

If you\'re seeing, and hearing elk in a unit. Even if you aren\'t getting one. the unit deserves to be hunted until you really learn it. It\'s more than just knowing where to find elk. Do you know where they go when pressured? How about if they\'re pressured again out of there second spot. Do you know all the spots they bed down in all those spots? Then you have feeding areas, time of year. Different weather etc etc. It\'s a long list, and I can\'t see how anybody can figure it out in a few years?

I\'m not trying to be pushy, or argumentative. I know some will take it that way. I\'m just trying to share my experience.

I know those who complained about me on Paul\'s forum are on this forum now. Speak up if you\'re offended by my posts.

 

[Swede]

What do you mean by \"know your area\"? I hunt mostly water holes using my tree stands. My area total area is over twenty square miles. How long would it take me to hunt and scout and find all of the good water holes? I have been hunting over twenty years and I highly doubt I have discovered every one. I always wonder if a better one exists, and I am ready to enlarge my area if I have information that will improve my chances at a good elk.
How big is your area? If your area is two square miles, it seems reasonable to have it pretty well figured out in three years. The first year is all new. You see where people and animals are and pray you get lucky. The next year you build on what you learned, and after three years you have a fair idea about general things including how the weather effects hunting. Now if your area is 20 square miles, then you can\'t possibly say you know the whole area after only three one weeks hunts. After three years there will probably be sections you have not put a boot track on, unless you purposely go there just to explore. Another factor to consider is how easy and accessible is your area? If it is rugged unroaded country, you will need more time than if it is well roaded, flat and open.
One thing I say in favor of using three years, is that after three years you should have some idea what your area holds and know some good areas to hunt. To me that is not knowing the area like Still Hunter describes and knows his area, but you can feel dangerous for the elk.

 

[Swede]

Learning is like a large package of goodies. Knowing your area is one part. Knowing how to hunt, including calling is another. Knowing how everything in your area interacts can be another factor to learn. The senior hunters here have spent years learning how these fit together and much more. I am satisfied I could invite some of you to hunt with me and you would have a good chance at getting an elk even though you hardly know the place. You know elk hunting. You have all of the basics so one missing part will not make you incapable of effectively hunting. Knowing the area, I would still have an advantage. If a first time hunter headed out, they have a lot to learn and it takes a while to get to where they know elk hunting.
I remember hunting with an individual that came upon a blood trail in the snow. He said there was no one following the elk, but he left it because he could not figure out which direction the elk was traveling. That was his first big game hunt. That individual could have killed an elk that hunt, but he knew nothing, so he was relying entirely on luck.

Over the years I have read, on other forums, people writing like it is easy. Just buy a call or two and go out tooting and blowing and the elk will come. Then you are told you need get this instructional material so will be the Pied Piper of elk. Just watch these videos and you learn how they come right to you. That almost never works like it is supposed to for new hunters. I am not trying to discourage anyone. In fact my intent is just the opposite. I want you to go out with realistic expectations and be prepared for what you will really encounter. To me nothing is more discouraging that thinking I have learned something well, only to learn that is not how things work. Let me add, buying more junk is not going to make you a great elk hunter. I have tried it and there is no substitute for long term elk education. In the mean time go out and hunt the best you know how. The more you learn the better your chances for success. If you can afford to take a week off, take two. Consider it as part of your development.
The last word I ever heard dad speak was \"hunting\". He was laying in bed wishing he could go out one more time. I have never heard anyone that regretted their time out hunting.

 

[timberland]

After hunting ten days in an area and internet scouting for 11 months, I have enough intel to spend a full two weeks hunting the spots I have found, that is, if I hunt like I should. That means picking the right winds, taking my time, being thorough, etc. I have bedding areas mapped out that will take some time to hunt right, plus all kinds of water, old wallows, saddles, and travel areas that I need to spend some time. In fact, one of my concerns is finding time to scout new areas that aren\'t in my 5x7 mi core hunting area. One more reason to punch a tag early in the hunt. Otherwise all my learning of new spots will be \"on the fly\" once hunting starts.

 

[Swede]

Timberland: You did not specify when you spent your 10 days out scouting. From what I read, it does not appear it is the same time you hunt. You are hoping to get an elk early so you can learn more. Here is what I see wrong with your claim. Elk move around a lot. Early in the season the bulls are not with the cows. They are off is different areas. As soon as the season begins and sometimes even before the elk get pushed into new areas. More hunting and more pressure comes. Then comes the rut. Where I hunt the mid season is the toughest. The elk have been pushed around, cattle have eaten much of the forage, and it is still hot and dry. Where are they now? Did that Summer scouting trip prepare you for that? Did you see that on Google Earth? Many things including logging and even predators can change things quickly. Over the years you will abandon areas you thought were great, but were only mediocre, and adopt new ones that are better.
I am not saying you cannot find the elk. I am not saying you will not get an elk. I am saying you really don\'t know your area. Please understand, I am not trying to offend.