Is finding elk a Science?

[JohnFitzgerald]

A + B + C - E = Success Percentage?

Boots on the ground is in my opinion the best way to determine great elk hunting spots. But, many of those locations I initially found by searching aerial/topo maps. In my experience, if it looks good on the map, then chances are it is a good elk hunting spot. So can one create a forumla for determining how good a spot will be.

Example:

Grazing Pasture(5 out of 10 pts) + Northern Slopes ( 8 out of 10 pts) + Water sources (7 out of 10 pts) = 15 out of 30 pts possible
15 - Open Range (5 out of 10 pts) = 10 out of 30 pts possible

Can finding elk be a science?

 

[WW]

I say no! Elk can be here today and gone tomorrow. You can find likely looking places on maps and google. But that doesn\'t guarantee elk will be there. Boots on the ground is the only true way to find them. And even at that, a lot may determine (when) you put those boots on the ground.

example: You find a really good looking spot on google earth. So you decide to check it out. You found good sign and even saw some elk in early June there. Then the weather turns off hot and dry during July and by September the elk have gone. So when you put boots on the ground is very important.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

I say no! Elk can be here today and gone tomorrow. You can find likely looking places on maps and google. But that doesn\'t guarantee elk will be there. Boots on the ground is the only true way to find them. And even at that, a lot may determine (when) you put those boots on the ground.

example: You find a really good looking spot on google earth. So you decide to check it out. You found good sign and even saw some elk in early June there. Then the weather turns off hot and dry during July and by September the elk have gone. So when you put boots on the ground is very important.

Good points Bill. Can time of year, elevation, and temperature all be variables in the equation? I think a lot of the experienced hunters here do some sort of calculation in their minds. Might not be precise numbers but many of us do weigh certain terrain features.

But what about those new to elk hunting and needing to choose a location? I\'ve heard many say \"I\'ve scouted this spot in July and it looks like it should hold elk, but I found none.\" They might have A and B variables, but are missing C and E. Can experienced hunter come up with a weighted equation that gives newbies a starting point? From your brain to the equation! :crazy:

 

[Deertick]

I think formulas (mathematical or otherwise) can get you close ... but I think what you are describing would work better for finding whitetails, or pheasants.

Elk inhabit too large of an area.

To get mathematical on this, the ratio Acceptable Habitat:Elk is a very large number.

That said, you have to start somewhere, and I am attracted to refining your formula. Let\'s work on it.

I\'d like to add \"Downhill from road access point\" as a (+) factor, but some may disagree.

 

[BTL]

Two biggest factors I have seen that affect elk are Pressure from hunters and Extreme weather
I would say you can find elk by a formula but its never a guarantee because of the unexpected factors. I would think those are the extra calculations an experience hunter accounts for when looking for elk.

 

[cohunter14]

I\'d like to add \"Downhill from road access point\" as a (+) factor, but some may disagree.

Depends on if you are going to shoot an elk down there or not! :lol:

Everyone has made good points. Personally, I think you can try to predict where elk should be, but there is no telling when they will be there. In an area I used to hunt, we knew where elk would eventually show up, but we never had any idea when. We would simply have to sit and wait, which is tough to do sometimes. In other areas, I have run across some very fresh sign from an entire herd being in an area, only to cover a ton of surrounding ground with them never turning up.

I am beginning to think that the solutions to the equation of finding elk include having a number of different areas to hunt, like cnelk has talked about, and also hunting the areas for a number of years. If elk aren\'t in one particular area, you can either sit and wait forever, or go to the next spot and try to find them there. Finding those spots becomes a lot easier after hunting the area for a long time and patterning the elk. Just my two cents.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

So is it possible to put together an equation, giving weight to certain variables, that helps the newbie find a handful of possible locations? I remember back to when I started and remember being overwhelmed in all the possiblities I could try. How hard is it to create such equation even if it\'s not 100% accurate. Even being 50% would be a little help, right?


Can we come up with the equation and apply it to some of our hot spots and some dead spots to see if we can get it to work? I have no clue weather it\'s possible but should we try? The winter season is approaching, what else do we have to do!

 

[Swede]

I think a formula is a great idea. No formula will be fool proof, but it could give you a place to start your field scouting. I agree with WW. It just seems to me that both techniques have their place.
The last two years I have failed to get an elk in an area that has been consistent for me for over 20 years. Things have changed that I did not pick up on with trail cameras or preseason scouting. Stringunner noted 70 elk were leaving our hunting area, headed for the ranch on opening morning. I am sure they were not the only one to leave. Probably no formula would pick up on that, still a formula is the essence of what I was trying to share with folks in the book I wrote.

 

[cohunter14]

Can we come up with the equation and apply it to some of our hot spots and some dead spots to see if we can get it to work?

Just a random thought, but maybe applying them to dead spots makes more sense? If we said \'this is where you won\'t typically find elk\' and you cross it off on your map, wouldn\'t that help to finding the areas that could potentially hold elk? Just thinking it might be easier to look at it from that perspective...

 

[Deertick]

Just a random thought, but maybe applying them to dead spots makes more sense? If we said \'this is where you won\'t typically find elk\' and you cross it off on your map, wouldn\'t that help to finding the areas that could potentially hold elk? Just thinking it might be easier to look at it from that perspective...

Now that\'s a good thought.

I would like to insert the joke that I think I\'d be really good at finding spots without elk! \"Come \'ere, son, I\'ll tell ya where they ain\'t.\"

But really, that is kind of how I approach hunting about anything ... I cross off \"this\" and \"that\" and then make a \"route\" between my remaining spots. It seems to be my \"method\" if I\'m hunting rooster pheasants or whitetails, or elk.

Like Cnelk says, \"ELF -- elk like flat\". The opposite is to \"cross-off\" lots of the real gnarly slopes. Likewise, I cross-off obviously over-hunted areas around trailheads.

Mathematically -- formula-wise -- one could ADD the things that make elk sightings more likely, and SUBTRACT things that make them less likely. (I think that was in the OP but I\'m too lazy to look.)

 

[cnelk]

Science is based on fact.
Finding elk is sometimes luck.
At what point does luck become scientific?

 

[bowhunter]

By the ELF rule I had 3 spots to check on opening day. I was near the first spot before shooting light. I heard elk hooves smacking rocks as they departed. I sat and waited for more light. You can\'t shoot what ya can\'t see right? Well off to the next spot. I sat up and did some cold calling. I heard some chirps. The elk sounded a little excited. Then it was quiet. I am not sure if they winded me or just didn\'t like what I was saying to them. I moved off to the third spot and as I slipped over from the top to check out a shelf I spotted a feeding bull. It was a long night :upthumb:

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Science is based on fact.
Finding elk is sometimes luck.
At what point does luck become scientific?

My thought is it doesn\'t.

Here\'s the general idea:
We as BackTraker\'s need to help the newbies as much as we can. Some guys/gals don\'t even now where to start scouting. Sure they can ask for hints, but putting all those hints together when searching a vast area can be challenging. Our goal with the equation is not to prove elk are in a certain spot. Instead the goal will be to narrow down locations so they can put boots on the ground. In genereal terms, the equation is not to find elk but does help hunters focus their scouting to certain area\'s. Hunting is not scientific but scouting can be.


So use a few brains, create an equation, then apply them to spots that we know either hold elk or don\'t. After about 10-15 applications we could get a better idea if the equation does hold water or maybe the collective minds can determine that we as hunters are missing something.

 

[Jaquomo]

It\'s more of an analytical process based on the variables at any given time.

I scouted my new area for roughly 30 days prior to the season. I probably spent 100 hours on GE. Other than learning the terrain, it was not overly valuable. In each spot I hunted, I had to put the puzzle together to find the elk. 40 years experience bowhunting elk helped with that, but it still was a process of sitting down, looking at the topo, figuring out other hunter pressure relative to transition and bedding, carefully looking for fresh tracks go going through saddles and pinch-points, on trails leading from feeding to bedding, then analyzing how to get in, hunt them, and get back out without blowing them up.

 

[Swede]

I agree with John on this one. Science can help me avoid wasting my time on totally fruitless expenditures of boot leather. Science can narrow the search to where it is much more practical. I understand Brad\'s point too. There is no formula that will take you from your living room and put you predictably into elk every time. If you are trying that way of scouting alone, you are going too much on luck.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Who wants to try this experiment out? Nothings going to be set in stone and every is going to be heard. You don\'t have to have 20 years of elk hunting under your belt. We\'ll need all types of hunters.

1) We work collectively to come up with an equation.
2) We use some aerial/topo maps of key area\'s and apply the equation.
3) The person supplying the maps then defines what the hunting is like and see if things match up.

Anyone game? Might just be fun experiment.

 

[Swede]

I will contribute, but someone else needs to supply the maps. Why do we need maps anyway? I would use the key points to consider on my own map search.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Many of us can upload the maps directly to the forum. If we apply the equation individually then compair, we all should be very close. If we are all over the board with the results then maybe the equation is not weighted correctly.