planning Colorado rifle 2017 trip. All inclusive thread with specifics.

[yoke]

Hi Elk101 members, the men in my family are planning an elk rifle trip to Colorado for a public land hunt in 2017. There are 4 of us going with 3 planning to draw tags for the first rifle season. None of us has ever been elk hunting or done a back country hunting trip before, but are determined to make it work.

Our background is entirely white tail based in Pennsylvania. We hunt archery and rifle and are in no way novice to hunting or camping. I am have a good knowledge of where I can find deer and the way they behave but have no illusion that elk are the same. Our group will have 3 members aged 28-32 in good shape and my father who is 60 also in good shape.

I wanted to start this thread to be a discussion related to both the logistics of the trip as well as bringing any of my own misconception to light. I'll explain where we are in our planning process and hopefully you can either poke holes in it or confirm my reasoning.

Choice of Colorado-
We have all been to Colorado on various trips and concluded that that would be a great place to spend a week hunting. The accessible out of state tags are also a fantastic option.

First Rifle-
We have limited time off and assumed that a 5 day season would be about the maximum we can afford. Coupled with the higher success rates and fewer hunters that was the only logical choice for us. As i said, we do archery hunt but because we are brand new we don't feel confident in being able to call and read elk well enough to do this. Also, our chances of not returning empty handed increases by having a rifle.

DIY-
We are DIY in pretty much everything we do and cherish the adventure more than the outcome. We would rather fail on our own and savor the defeat together than succeed by following a guides directions to a bull and only be required to follow then pull a trigger. Also, we would rather invest the money into gear we can keep.

Spike camp-
We want the experience of being out away from the bustle of people as well as the advantage of being where most day hunters won't be. This will give us a head start on each day. Most of us already have the camping gear we would need for camping at 9,000 feet in October.

Spike camp downsides- Hauling all our gear in by foot. If we can't find elk we are pretty much stuck with our location. Coming From PA, we will only be able to "scout" via google maps. We would never expect help with a location to a honey hole.


Our group plans to do the online course together, but chances are that will take a few months for us to get done which could hold up some of our plan making. Some of the following questions might be covered under the course but a direct answer now would help keep our plan making moving.

Questions-

GMU selection
The previous few years of data in the GMU were planning on hunting seems to ebb and flow from year to year almost like clockworks. Is that due to people seeing a good previous year then they flood to that area and are unsuccessful, which makes the GMU look undesirable for the following year, which in turn would have fewer hunters meaning higher success?

Google Maps scouting-
What do you generally look when you're scouting on google maps. My main focus has been to see where we can get away from highways and private land and generally get away from people. Is this a dumb way to start looking? Whitetail are easy compared to an animal that moves miles at a time if being pushed.

Should we instead be looking for meadows, cover, and water sources between a certain elevation depending on the time of year we plan to be there?


Where to leave our vehicle-
On my last trip to Colorado I noticed a ton of trucks parked on the side of the highway. Is it legal or advisable to just pull over and park for a week in to back country? It seems like a simple thing but I can't imagine we will be close to any trail heads. Are there special permits we could get to allow us to not get towed?

Draw application-
The unit we have been looking at has a 100% acceptance rate for first pick. Does the time of the application have anything to do with outcome? I know Feb 7 is when it opens. If we apply then will we have a better chance of getting the tags or doesn't it matter at all.


The rough Itinerary.
Oct 10th Leave home after work 24-26 hour drive straight thru.
Oct 11th  Arrive in general area-hotel
Oct 12th Pack two trip to spike camp (fighting altitude) maybe only one essentials trip. camp overnight.
Oct 13th rest/light scouting day possibly retrieve more gear.
October 14th first day Kill 3 giant Bulls ( just kidding)
15
16
17
Oct 18 last day
Oct19 pack out gear and hotel
Oct 20 return drive
Oct 21 arrive at home

I sounds like a grind and I'm sure it will be. Too ambitious?

I will be updating this thread as we get the trip pieced together. Please let me know of any issues you see at all.

 

[ejcaman]

Hi Yoke....I have elk hunted(DYI) in Colorado for about 20 years now. I am a born Midwestern whitetail hunter also and started my elk hunting with some buddies using outfitters in Wyoming, Montana & Idaho. Colorado is my favorite and you've made a good choice. If you and your hunting partners are planning to backpack in and camp, there are many places where you can safely leave your vehicles and get away from the crowds.
I have come to prefer GMU77. It carries lots of elk and has plenty of Wilderness areas where you can pack in and be away from the crowds and have a good chance to find elk.
One of the big keys to being successful is to be in shape. I don't just mean with strength but most importantly aerobic health...Backpacking & hunting at 8000 - 12,000 feet is difficult on the lungs...

 

[Speezer87]

As far as google earth I think looking for places to get away from the road is a great start, from there looks for the fields, or deep timber pockets, etc. 


For parking your car if you are in national forest and park the car off the actual road and dont park it like a jerk, you should be fine.  with that being said there are usually places where people have pulled off the road before (you will see the ruts, or just lack of vegetation from vehicle wear and tear)  these are the best places to pull off instead of creating a new spot.  I have never be questioned by anyone when i have camped in spots like this or parked for the day, i have never left my vehicle for more then 2 days, so if your gone for more then that im not exactly sure how that works.


1 thing you can do is try searching google for any trailheads near where you will be, as these usually have actual parking lots that you can leave your car. 


for the draw processes it does not benefit you at all if you apply early or late, it is all the same process for drawing a tag and everyone has the same chance (unless preference points are needed for the specific unit). 


Where did you find those dates for the season?  I think they are correct i was just wondering if you actually saw those dates or if you are just guessing based off last years dates?


Make sure you are ready for any type of weather.  60's and 70s during the day are possible, and single digits at night, just all depends on what you get.

 

[yoke]

I just googled 2017 seasons and found those dates on a few different sites.

Thanks for the responses on the parking issue. I guess we won't need to worry about that until we nail down a location.


what is the difference between US forest service land and ASFS wilderness as shown on Toprut maps? Both are legal to hunt I assume.

 

[Speezer87]

Interesting I havent seen anything yet for 2017 dates yet. 


Im assuming you mean USFS wilderness?  Wilderness areas are areas where you cant drive a motor vehicle, or ride a bike into.  Its accessed by either foot or by horse.  So there are no roads(at least driveable) in the wilderness area.


And yes both forest service land and wilderness areas are huntable.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

both are legal to hunt pending they're within your respective GMU. Wilderness's have far more restrictions as to what's acceptable for means of travel. Get some USFS maps once you nail down an area. Many bodies of water, especially in SW CO have restrictions like "no camping X feet from XYZ reservoir" because they often feed nearby towns water supply.


1st rifle has highest success rates and sounds like a great choice for your time constraints and what you're looking for. Especially 1st rifle, it can be 75 degrees and sunny or 25 degrees and snow.... The later rifle seasons at least you can bank on some colder crummy weather, but 1st rifle can be really mild which makes packing a little more difficult but it's also only 5 days which make's the amount of everything else a little easier.


Lastly before you pick a GMU watch weather over the winter..... right now there's some pretty heavy snowpack in parts of CO which could result in winterkill. It happened 2 years ago in NW CO and now it looks like the herds around Gunnison might be in for a tough winter.

 

[blakeb21]

You may also want to talk to Colorado Division of Wildlife and get with on of their hunt planners, they are very helpful and can give you some good areas, then when you have a couple of GMU's to ask about here and lots of helpful information and insights.  As you are probably well aware Google Earth scouting is good, but many of the higher elevations here in Colorado look very different whenyou get in the mountains. Like has already been said we have lots of snow right now, but look for areas away from roads and trails and 3+ miles in is a good way to have success.

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[yoke]

Recent shopping trip finds.

Took a trip to our closest Cabela's to demo some products yesterday. We looked specifically at boots, frame packs, and GPS.

The boots Dad picked are Cabela's brand 8" axis 400Gram boots.  http://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS-MNS-G-AXIS-HUNT-BOOT-GTX/2271609.uts?searchPath=%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FcategoryId%3D734095080%26CQ_search%3Dhunting%2Bboots%2Baxis%2B400%2Bgram%26CQ_st%3Db I was a bit concerned that 400Gram might not be warm enough for first rifle. I know we will be moving quite a bit so the weight is very important. I tried them on also and was impressed with the feel and the ankle support. I have heavy (really heavy) 1200 gram boots I use when sitting on stand all day, but would probably die of exhaustion if I had toput 8 miles on in the mountains. I will take them along, but they'll stay in the truck unless we get a very cold forecast. Your Thoughts on insulation
requirements? 

Frame packs-
None of us has ever had to pack an animal out before so this is new territory for us. We do have experience with backpacking and overnights, so we all have hiking packs for our gear and supplies. We were thinking we would make 2 trips to set up camp and use our backpacking bags for clothing and camp supplies, and frame packs for hauling in sleeping bags and food. That would give us frame packs in camp to haul meat if we, hopefully, need it. I have been hiking a few times a week with 40 lbs in my backpacking pack, which is OK at that weight, but was very pleased with the way a true meat hauling pack felt on my shoulders and back with 80 LBS of deer feed in the store. At $200 it wasn't enough to scare me away, but had me wondering if I could retrofit an old frame backpacking pack to be just as good? Is it worth the cost for new construction? http://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS-PRESTIGE-FRAME-ONLY/1832511.uts?searchPath=%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FCQ_page%3D20%26CQ_search%3Dframe%252bpack%26CQ_st%3Db%26categoryId%3D734095080

GPS-
We wanted an option to see each other on the GPS in real time. As far as I can tell the Garmin Rhino is the only option that lets that be an option. Our thinking is if one group does get a shot we want to all be able to help with field dressing and hauling out. That would let us be able to walk directly to a point and not spend the time trying to link up with visual descriptions and such. Also it would be a good sense of security to be able to keep tabs if one group is late to return to camp. $500 for each is pretty much for a device we won't use more than a few times over the next decade. Is there any outfitters that any of you know of that rents units like that? I'm also looking at used, but need to make sure different Rhino models communicate with each other.

Spotting Scope-
We had hoped to be able to budget on spotting scopes since we will most likely use them only on trips out west which will only be every few years. It seems like we would easily be spending hours a day looking through the eyepiece so we don't want to be giving ourselves headaches. We assumed this model was barely worth looking at since it's so far under the price of other models, but wanted to see if anyone has experience with it. The salesman mentioned that its only really meant to be used on clear days at the shooting range.  http://www.cabelas.com/product/SIMMONS-PORRO-SPOTTING-SCOPE/2420077.uts?searchPath=%2Fbrowse.cmd%3FcategoryId%3D734095080%26CQ_search%3Dspotting%2Bscope%26CQ_st%3Db


Rifle selection-
One member will taking his .300 Win Mag. Excellent choice.
The others were planning on taking a .270 and .280 as we already have them and they're a good weight to carry around. Both are accurate solid setups that have been killing white tails for a decade or more. I know shot placement is far more important than caliber, but would it be in our best interest to consider higher calibers? Both plan on shooting 150 grain federals.  What is a realistic range for a .270 shooting 150's? I have killed deer at 300+, but don't intend to take a marginal shot at an elk.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

Boots.... to each their own but during first rifle I probably would be looking at a non-insulated boot. I run non-insulated, all leathers down to 20 degrees comfortably, any insulation will make your feet sweat when hiking. 1st rifle can be really mild. If it's cabelas or nothing the meindl alaskans or western guide would be it for me but you should really look at others from danner all the way up to your crispi, zamberlan, kennetrek, lowa, etc.. Your hunt won't be any fun if you cut costs here


Frame packs - assuming your keeping costs down here and don't want a small mortgage for a pack, maybe look at a kelty cache hauler or horn hunter full curl. Both will haul in your entire week, in one trip, and will pull double duty. The frame is there for hauling but day bags break off for actual hunting and so you don't need to carry the frame all over.


GPS - A cheap GPS with OnX is better than an expensive one without.... I run a Garmin 62S. I never warmed up to touch screens but others likely feel different.


Spotter- pretty simple. the best you can afford


Rifle - the best one is the one you shoot the best. I know alot of guys that have sold 338 win mags over the years they bought to be their "elk gun" but later put up for sale since it is absolutely unneccessary. effective yes but not needed. .270 or better yet a .280 will be plenty.... as long as you can shoot it well. I know guys that have shot and killed elk with 243's and 7-08's, far better hunters than myself. I also know of alot of elk that have been crippled by a 300win or long action short action super magnificent ultra magnum heat seeking whatever.... Again they're great if you can shoot them well but recoil in the mags especially in a lighter framed mountain gun can make veteran shooters flinch.

A good heavy bullet in either (.280 or .270) will kill your bull out to 400 (and beyond but most shooters shouldn't go beyond this, many do but shouldn't is the operative word). Barnes TTSX's or anything with a high ballistic coefficient and good construction will kill your elk. Lots of animals have died with Nosler partitions too, they just don't retain as much weight as the all coppers.

One of the best overall people I know but excellent hunter and even better marksman does all his hunting with a .284 win. He's peeled elk at 600 and a little beyond... Normally I'd say this is foolish but he absolutely knows what he's doing and has forgot more about shooting than most will learn in a lifetime. Regardless his rifle doesn't differ much ballistically than either of your choices...

 

[yoke]

Does anyone have any information for when 2016 harvest reports will be available for Colorado?

Is there a good way to get information on what parts of the state have had a really tough winter? I know here in PA the deer herds are going to be coming into spring really strong and fat due to an exceptionally warm winter, probably not the case in Co.

We are trying to narrow down what units we want to hunt, I'll post up the units once we narrow a little further.

 

[wapiti_will]

Harvest reports usually don't come out until around or after the application deadline in April.  Your planning should also include some calls to the CPW to determine the potential winter kill in the areas you're interested in.  The snowfall in Colorado has been over 150% of average in areas and CPW is already closing off access in lower areas and feeding elk to help them survive the winter.  But usually only 10% of the elk in a given area get access to feed, so you can expect a certain percentage of winter kill and therefore lowered success rates the following fall.  Just something to keep in mind.

 

[yoke]

Planning update:


We are working through the Elk University here and are finding it very informative.


Training has been going well. We are each hiking several times a week with 50-80lb frame packs which has been showing results. I picked up some trekking poles and love them, I'll probably never go out without them now that I see how much of a difference they make. Once the snow and ice melt I plan to mixing in some jogging and mountain biking for more cardio.


Other gear selection has been going well. Everyone has boots, sleeping/camping gear, packs and most necessary clothing. Some will be picked up as we narrow down our season and area.


The biggest frustration so far has been wading through the application process. Stupidly, I had been looking at TopRut's draw % map which appears to not really be based on anything. I more recently have been looking at the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Draw Report. This is still proving to leave me scratching my head a bit. Even when studying the glossary I cant find what I'm looking for.


Since we don't have any preference points and are hoping to draw 3 tags for an either sex unit, I'm assuming we will have a very limited selection of units. Is there a way for us to apply as a group so we all get in or none of us do?

 

[windymtnman]

Colorado does have a group application option.  Have you logged in and gone through the internet application process as yet?  If so, you should have seen the option for that.  This is the last year Colorado is going to even offer mail in paper license applications.  Next year I read they are just going to do internet applications.
I think you could log into their license application link, and enter some date to navigate around to see what it's about.  If you opt to not fully complete it, you could just back out and complete it at a later time when all of your group has their info and is ready to go.
The April 4th deadline is coming up soon, so you'll probably want to get after it soon.

(All this is assuming you're putting in for the 1st rifle season.  The other seasons are mostly over the counter purchases, so you don't need to do anything for them right now)

 

[scneedham2345]

Ive got 24pp for Colorado, looking for advice

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[ILbowhntr]

I'd have hunted Unit 76 4 times with 24 points.

 

[yoke]

I'm thinking of trying for unit 43.


It appears to be very mountainous with some 14k peaks. How difficult should I expect it to be to get away from people if we're on foot?  If anyone has any information they are will to offer up on that area let me know.


Our back up unit would be the Flat Tops area. It was my understanding that there are no vehicles allowed in wilderness area but there are roads running all over the Flat Tops wilderness. Am I missing something there?

 

[Speezer87]

I have never been, but from what i hear the maroon bells/snowmass wilderness is rugged with steep everywhere.  Not sure on the roads either, I have found wilderness areas with old roads, but also others without them. 


I have never hunted the flat tops either but hear it gets a lot of hunting and also other recreational pressure.  But it is a large area and it is wilderness, so no mechanical devices.  Also as it sounds it is "flat" it will not be nearly as rugged and steep as the maroon bells, from what ive seen at least