Reality Check?

[windymtnman]

    I've been reading over a lot of the posts here about the dreams, plans, and aspirations of hunters that don't live in the Western States.  Lots of comments on wanting to backpack hunt deep into the mountains, and all the related aspects of that.  While I commend all those ideas, I sometimes wonder if folks really know what they're getting in to if they haven't experienced the realities of this?  Maybe I'll take some flak for my opinions?
    I'm no expert Elk hunter by any means.  I'm from the Midwest, and started travelling to Southern Colorado back in 1989.  Between 89' and 2010, I scarcely missed a year.  I was 39 when I started, and always stayed in excellent shape, lifting weights and running 10K races, etc..  When I retired, in 2010, we bought 49 acres in the mountains, built a ranch, and these days I spend my time riding the mountain trails, horse/mule packing into the backcountry on Summer trips, and generally living the life.  We can sit in the house and often watch Elk out the window in the off season.
    So, when I read about some of the ideas in these forums, I have to shake my head sometimes.  I'm not the toughest guy out there, and I'm 66 years old.  But, I think I get around pretty good, and living at 8500 ft. elevation, I'm not troubled to top out on 13,500' mountains in the slightest.  That said, I know what it's like to hike into the mountains to camp & hunt.  My question is, do you know what it's like to pack an Elk out on your back from that far in?  It ain't easy!  When your hunt time is limited, and your partner shoots an Elk, it's a huge sacrifice of your time to help him do a pack out.  But, that's often what it takes to salvage the meat before it either goes bad, or the birds and other critters find it.  I've seen a lot of scenarios, where several guys pack one out, and then are too exhausted to even resume hunting.  I've seen quality boots create some awesome blisters and hot spots from the rigors of carrying meat on steep ground.  I've had my own issues with this stuff.  Some folks figure they'll find someone with pack stock and hire them to pack their Elk.  Well, most Outfitters will turn you down, as they're busy with their own clients, or the request is too sketchy in location to get involved.  They also can't operate commercially outside their allotted area in their permit.  In Colorado, the game regulations say you have to be licensed to provide "Outfitter Services".  What does that mean?  I'm told that if you solicit or hire yourself out for packing gear & meat. 
    So, we all love Elk hunting and the great outdoors.  A big part of the excitement and fun in this endeavor is the planning and dreaming about it.  I get that, and enjoy it too.  I truly enjoy helping others, because I used to be in the same situation as the non residents coming to the mountains to hunt.  If I can be a resource or offer advice, I'm happy to do so, but hey.....I'M NO EXPERT.  I love Elk, but am but an average hunter.  I think they're too smart for me!

 

[Turnercody]

I personally have in the past helped out a group of non resident hunters that found themselves in that exact predicament... 4 miles back in ... dead elk on the ground.. funs over... for one whole side of a backstrap I offered my horses to get them out of the bind.. a fee I thought was fair... ;D. When we got them out to the trailhead they were rather emotional...  those guys had some grit and after their first experience they came back the next year to our surprise. But with a whole new outlook on the mountain! 

 

[backcountry_hunter]

I'm not really sure what the point of the original post is or even what the question is..... you're asking potentially new elk hunters if they know what it's like to pack out an elk? Seriously?......


Everyone has to start somewhere like you did @ 39. I've packed elk at 3:00 am and hunted the next day, I've packed elk for people I don't remember their names now, I've known people that have bumped into outfitters and horse riders on the trail and paid a sum for them to haul elk out, essentially my experiences contradict almost everything you wrote with the exception of it being hard....


I'm one of those that likes going way back in, minimum of 5 days but try to do closer to 9 or 10 and most times I'm alone. No horses usually, just boot leather... probably one of the guys you'd shake your head at.... and yes I almost always am well aware of what I'm getting into.


One of the very appealing aspects of this site is ALL the member's ability to put their egos aside. There's people who are going on their first elk hunt, have never elk hunted, and veteran hunters alike on here but everyone is pretty civil and helpful. If you're just here to rain on people's aspirations, there's plenty of other forums where you can play the internet tough guy....


FYI I know a 77 year old and a 76 year old from the midwest/south that still elk hunt with the best of them and pack their own animals. It's hard but the further I get in my own elk hunting career I'm convinced anyone can do it with some work and preparation.... It's not just reserved for those of us that reside in elk country.

 

[Booners]

I'm from Iowa and have grown up hunting Co and Wy. I've taken several people to the mountains hunting. Several for their first trips.. even if they prepare themselves physically, reality still slaps them in the face!!
I took a good friend of mine this past season- Co Archery, for his first ever hunt in mts.. called it his dream hunt. He did great, but it wears on you. We packed in 8 miles for a week, DIY.
Day 4 I shot a good 6x6, and we were way back in... Up to that point it had been pretty cool. But the next day was to hit mid 70's. I contacted both Outfitters nearby. I WON'T risk losing meat due to temps, and for that reason, I had them pack it out for me. I have too much respect for these animals to risk losing the meat from something on my end..
We did quarter out, bag, and  packed 2 miles to our nearest horse trail for pick up..
A huge dose of reality set in for him and myself as well. I've packed out Elk before with and for friends of mine.. but a first timer and that far back... it's hard for people to fully grasp the difficulty until they have to experience it themselves...  for most hunters, I'd say it's the hardest thing they'll ever experience, packing any animal out of the mountains....
But it's all worth it... you do what you have to do save and salvage your game. It's all part of it. Wether you pack all out yourself or get some assistance, it's all part of the experience! That's why we love it!!

 

[shirtshirt]

I think the OP's post is valuable. I'll be a first time elk hunter this fall in WY.  It's easy to be lulled in to a bit of a daze and forget the full force of the task ahead. The responses have been valuable as well.

No doubt I need to kick my workouts in to high gear.

 

[EasternHunter]

I posted one of these naive first timer posts ("Utah first time OTC hunt") which has no replies and this actually seems like the first reply to my post, so thank you. In all fairness, I did ask for ANY type of help or information. I am trying to get the best understanding of what the hunt will be like prior to going out there to do it. I know that the hunt ideas I have are pipe dreams, but I'm not afraid to get out there and go for it. I have done a decent amount of backpacking, hiking, and camping out west, at high elevations, and also down in the canyons with 110*+ temperatures, just never with a rifle on my pack and a tag in my pocket. Albeit, I did name my profile "easternhunter" to indicate that I know I don't have all the experience in these types of hunts that most people on the site do. I also know that I need to amp up my workouts in preparation.


Everyone has a first time for anything they do. If I get slapped in the face with reality while doing it, so be it. This site seemed like the place that I could get a ton of good information; I feel like most first timers who make profiles and post looking for information are just as dedicated as I am. I appreciate the friendly warning of the hunt, but try not to shake your head at those who are looking to learn and take on a challenge that they've been thinking about for years.


Any help you guys could give me would be greatly appreciated, I haven't changed my hunt plans at all yet.


Thanks,

 

[windymtnman]

      In writing my post regarding the realities of backcountry hunting, in steep country and high altitude, I most certainly wasn't trying to rain on anyone's parade.  I see these forums main purpose as two fold.  One, is to gain info and learn more about Elk hunting.  Secondly, it serves as some entertainment in the off season in bolstering one's dreams of the hunts to be and the memories of the past.
      Having been "out there" a good many years, and now living in the mountains of Colorado, I just know how it can be.  For many years, I'd look down into a drainage and think "I'll be there's Elk down in there", but also knew I'd be looking for trouble trying to get one packed out by myself, based on the distance and terrain I'd have to cover.  My last pack out on my back was at 63 years old, at 11,800 ft. steep, blowdown country in 7" snow.  It was only 1.5 miles per one way trip, and I made 6 trips hauling him out. So, I got about 18 miles of hiking in 2 days.  Bear in mind, I had horses & a mule at home, but didn't want to take them up there.
      So, for the new hunters, all I'm saying is don't overestimate your ability, and bite off more than you can chew.  Foot, knee, and back problems come easy when your pack is full of meat.  Different muscles come into play, and you're breathing 30% less oxygen in Colorado's high country.  A strong bout of altitude sickness will make you wish you were home in bed.  A 2 mile hike from a morning trailhead is the norm oftentimes.  When you have an expensive tag in your pocket, and two more days to hunt, you might be helping your buddy on a pack out, rather than continuing to hunt?  Some will be ready, willing and able to meet the challenges, and some won't.  We all have our strengths and weaknesses.
      Coupled with all this, Colorado law makes it illegal for guys like me to pack one out for you, and accepting anything of value to compensate me for my diesel fuel to drive to your location. The last time I packed an Elk out for a buddy, I figure it cost me over $100 in fuel and farrier expenses to repair some hoof damage done on talus rock when some horse shoes came off.  Outfitter help is often hard to come by, as they can't operate out of their permitted area, and have their own clients to service.
      As with a great many things in life, the stuff that doesn't come easy, is also sometimes the most rewarding.

 

[EasternHunter]

Windymtnman, you do bring up some good points, especially on helping your buddies pack out while they could be hunting. With 4 guys, I think our plan would be for everyone to stop hunting for the day and all work together to get the meat to a place where it wont go to waste. A "sacrifice" the whole group would have to be willing to make. The thing I still am not sure about would be say the last day or two. Knowing you have to leave in a day or two, you certainly would not want to harvest an animal miles and miles out; it would cause some serious delays at the tail end of the trip, especially if you have to be out of there at a certain time. What do you do in the final days of your hunt if you have to leave the next day for example? Hunt very close to the car and hope you get lucky? Or just hang out at camp and call it a trip?

 

[Speezer87]

Eastern hunter, I live in Colorado and often have only weekends or long weekends to get into the mts to hunt.  Sunday mornings before i have to drive home i usually stay closer to the road or car for that very purpose.  Im sure if something came up id be able to convince my boss that missing that monday of work was absolutely needed, but i try to avoid that if possible. 


Obviously everyone says get away from roads in order to see animals, but in the past 2 years ive had a chance at a mule deer buck, and saw a herd of elk within 100 yards of the road(during rifle season).  In the case of the elk they were crossing the road from private to public, while people were loading horse trailers right in the parking lot. 


Theres always a chance.


But yea if you have to leave, hunting near the road could be the only option.

 

[Speezer87]

Oh and to the original posters point, last year was my 1st year archery hunting, and i started with elk.  But there were a couple times when my hunting buddy backed out of the weekend trip, and i had to make a decision on whether to go solo.


After considering all the options i did not go.  I felt that if i was successful it would be just me to get the animal out, and i was not confident in my ability to do it alone.


1 thing that has not been mentioned yet is the mental aspect of packing out an animal alone, once again i have never done it, but i would imagine that it would be easy to get down on yourself if alone, when at least if you have a buddy or multiple buddies you can keep each others spirits up

 

[MT_mulies]

I have hunted elk since I was able to at 12(now 31). I don't think people realize how big and heavy elk are till one hits the ground. A majority of the elk I have killed, I was lucky enough to get a truck within 200-300 yards and drag the thing downhill. A lot of that is where I hunt at, but not all of it. That's not because I'm lazy and only hunt 200-300 from the truck or road hunt that is just how it worked. (shot an elk about 1/2 from the road and 1 lunged him. He died within 20 yards of a road and another one I tracked the elk for about 3 miles and ended up catching up to them within 75 yards of a road). Anyway last year I killed a big 6 point about 1.5 miles from the road. I was in a roadless area and packed the sucker out on my back by myself. It was brutal the next day when I woke up after packing all day and most of the night before, I was tired and sore in places I didn't know could hurt. I had even walked to work(.8 miles) everyday all summer with a 40 lb pack on preparing for the hunt. I think if people understand how demanding elk hunting is and prepare the best they can they should be ok. They will be tired and sore, but ok. I think mental stamina for the actual hunt and mental stamina for the pack out are often over looked. Being in shape is a HUGE part of it, but so is being mentally strong enough to handle it.

 

[yoke]

Brand new elk hunter here. Never hit the hills with a tag in hand. I have however spent some time in elk habitat and can attest to the demanding landscape they live in. Even though I am in good shape at sea level I have been hit by the altitude harder than I would have thought.


On my most recent trip I drove from PA to RMNP in 2 days and camped at 8000 feet for a day before heading up to Parika lake at 11400. I took way more weight than I would have needed, close to 60Lbs of gear for me and my wife for a few days. I struggled the last half mile or so more than I thought I might have.


With that being the case, I don't think its possible to be on a forum about elk hunting and not have it blasted into you that the weight and altitude are killers. I doubt there are any hunters in the woods who couldn't at least say "you told me so". It's good to hear the warning more times than not, but I don't think it's fair to say people are being too ambitious.

 

[windymtnman]

Eastern Hunter:  As for your question on what kind of pack might be best for packing meat.  I'll be the first to say I don't know what all is on the market these days.  (I just use an Eberlestock for my daypack needs).  Even though I plan on using my horses/mule to bring a complete Elk out in one trip, I still take along a pack frame unless I'm positive I can get the animals right up to the carcass.  I have an Alaskan Pack frame (from Cabela's) that really is made for this job.  I have to believe it's a better option than a backpack that adapts for meat packing. 
  The mountains can be "interesting".  I know of times when it was so steep, you could load meat in a pannier on a Mule, and actually had to walk the Mule forward & do a U turn to then load the other pannier because of how steep it was.  Then, get animals that will jump over a blowdown chest high!  That is why I love being with my "boys".  They know it's work time, and they will be rewarded with much love, care and nurturing.  How could I not?
Anyway, I enjoy reading about other's thoughts and experiences here.  For the record, if someone ever called me for help, I'd pack one out for a stranger if they weren't ridiculously far away......?

 

[Turnercody]

Eastern hunter,  look at exo packs.. in my opinion there the best all around packs. I agree with mt mulies on the mental aspect.. my group and I packed out 7 elk this last year.. 1 big bull limited entry we used horses, the other 5 between 4 of us we packed out ourselves. Ranging from 1.5 to 3.5 miles from the tent. With 4 people and the right gear (packs) you can confidently tackle an elk. With each person grabbing a quarter and the more ambitious 2 of ya grab the the back straps. But ,,, a first for me this last year was a late season cow tag that I filled in December.  This hunt I did solo,  knocked her down at 11 am  I was till 8 pm packing her out. Would of been longer had I not been able to use a sled for there was an average of 2'of snow. The mental challenge of going it alone will test you....  trust me you'll start talking to yourself after you get tired enough. A side note. I totally completely underestimated the snow and hiking a total of 6.3 miles in it. Snow will kick your butt.  Worse than sand IMO. The right gear and bomb proof hunting partners are vital to success and being confident in your actions in the back country. 

 

[Turnercody]

It's funny cuz the sled idea I didn't think of til the day of and I'm so very glad I did. Best 30 bucks I spent

 

[MT_mulies]

I have no idea what kind of pack is best. I just have a normal hiking back pack and just put the meat in that. I'm sure an actual back frame would be better, but mine works for me. If I had the money to spare then possibly I would buy a top of the line pack. Until then I will stick with my normal pack and go from there. Once minebreaks or wears out I will shop around and see what meets my needs. I figure if I can pack 60lbs in my hiking back why wouldn't it work for elk? I think its an older kelty if I remember right. Something that is about 10-15 years old.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

Speezer87 and MT_mulies thanks for the info and sharing your experiences. I am definitely increasing my workout routine; I've been thinking about wearing a weighted pack everytime I walk the dogs as a supplement to my workouts, similar to what you mentioned MT_mulies haha... And yea, it definitely seems like a task to do with multiple people, both for adding muscle and keeping the spirits up.


Regarding packouts, what kind of backpacks do you guys use? I have a Gregory Baltoro 75 liter (4,577 cubic inches) pack I have used for many backpacking trips. It is an internal frame pack with a large main compartment. I have considered getting a new one specifically for hunting if this one won't cut it; I've found some that are external frames where you can remove the pack and strap the meat to the frame itself. Is this necessary? Do you generally put the meat in the compartments or strap to the pack? Also, not  a big deal, but my current pack doesn't have a rifle sling/holder, so I would have to figure that out.

Wearing a pack when you walk your hounds is a great way to mimic what you'll be doing in the mountains. I work in the forest industry and often throw a weighted frame on when I step out of the truck, be it I'm only going 100 yds or 3 miles. I'll increase as sept and oct get closer. I also run and lift but if you have down time throwing on a weighted pack can only help.


Your gregory bag might be just fine. Packs get over thought and over analyzed... more importantly there's no one size fits all and personal pref, fit, etc... vary from human to human. Universally kifaru and stone glacier seem to receive the highest praise. Exo sounds like they make a great pack with plenty of supporters but I've never owned one. Kuiu makes great packs for bivy hunting when every ounce counts, but run of the mill elk hunting I think there's better options. Barney's of alaska probably have the best "traditional" frame packs/suspension but you're looking at $700 also. I personally have about 1/2 dozen packs from $100 all the way up to kifaru and they all have their place. I bought a kifaru last december and it hasn't hauled an animal yet but I can certainly tell already that it's living up to the hype. I use my kuiu when I'm going extended overnight and living off my back for a week plus. Horn Hunter's full curl is one of the best values out there for less than $300 and I still use that over some of my more expensive bags. I also have a kelty frame that still gets used.... All depends what you're doing and what fits you. I usually put meat in the bag and tighten it up. In the rare even I leave the meat boned in I'll strap to the frame but I prefer boned out meat to go in the bag. You should be able to buy an aftermarket rifle or bow sling from kifaru, kuiu, etc... most hunting pack companies make add-ons like this

 

[ribo451]

Thought I'd chime in about packing an animal out of the woods. My group uses meat carts a lot. We have a big two wheeled cart for going behind locked gates. We have a one wheeled cart that has handles on the front and back as well as brakes. It will go great down a trail. And I always have a collapsible cart in the back of my SUV during hunting season. We usually push one of the carts into wherever we are going with our pack frames and meat sacks on it and whoever is pushing the cart usually puts there pack and bow or rifle on it as well. Then if we need it it's accessible without going back to the truck for it.

I don't push it into areas that are real steep but I can usually get it close so we only have to pack the animal to the meat cart then push it out.

We have also pushed it into the back country with camping gear on it for back country camping. It really saves your back when there is a lot of weight to get moved.

Here is a photo of my Dad and I packing out a 5x6 I shot in one trip. We each have a front shoulder on our backs and the rest is on the cart. My Mom took the photo and carried her bow and mine. My Dads is on the cart. This pack out was a little over two miles one way.

I don't have any photos of the pack out this year because it was raining hard and we were trying to hurry before we died of hypothermia, but we did my bull this year over two miles in two trips. He was a bigger bull and it was uphill. We could have done it in one trip if we put meat on our packs but we figured it would be easier to do it all on the cart. 

We have also packed three deer at one time on one of these carts over three miles.

And I agree with TurnerCody about the sled. I drug a big buck two miles last year before I met up with my parents who had a sled. I spent the last mile walking and basically steering while it slid downhill with little effort on my part.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

Carts aren't legal where I go... smart though, just can't hunt wilderness areas

 

[ribo451]

You really can't use a cart in a wilderness area? I didn't know that. I can see not wanting anything with a motor on it but it seems to me like one trip out with two people pushing a one wheeled meat cart would do less damage than six+ trips with meat on your back, or a pack string hauling gear and meat.

Glad you said something. I have never hunted anywhere you couldn't use one and never would have even thought it would me a problem.

I assume you also can't ride a mountain bike into a wilderness area then too.