Wait or Walk 2

[Swede]

I am a little anxious to start another thread on whether to wait or walk. This is intended as a comparison to see if changing the situation should be reflected in a change of hunting strategy. In this second scenario should I wait or walk?

It is 6:30AM on September 7th. We left camp over an hour ago. We are hunting near the bottom of a draw in mixed cover. There are good patches of cover and small openings. We can stay low and still stay in the shadows. It just means we walk a zig-zag course. There is a lot of fresh sign around and I just nearly stepped in a pile of hot poop. We have heard nothing and feel confident that nothing has been spooked. As we have advanced for over 1/2 mile this morning, through the timber above the creek, I have made several cow calls and we waited 45 minutes at your one bugling location. Nothing has answered, but I am confident the elk are near. We just set up and you bugled again. I am wondering: You are my guide. Are we going to wait here awhile or continue to walk on?

 

[Tdiesel]

Well if I just bugled might wait there for a few minutes but then I\'m still walking. these elk are going to be heading to there bedding grounds and if we advance up the mountain more than likley they will be feeding as they go giving us the opportunity to get close hopefully! Morning thermals are coming down most likely and will be in our face. We may stop before we get to the bedding area if we plan on hunting this area for a couple days and set up at the highest feeding, this afternoon the elk will start down the mountain to those meadows and we will have an opportunity to ambush them.
I would be walking till I see elk or hear them thats why I prefer hunting to fishing I hate waiting for a fish to bite my hook I would rather go get them and make something happen ,while being smart about it of course.

 

[Bullrub]

I would wait for sure, and would most likely only use cow calls off and on ??????????

 

[Buglemaster]

On the first episode, I would have walked. Just not enough sign to encourage me to set tight. But I\'m gonna stay a while on episode 2. Sounds like we are in close proximity to the wapiti . And when & if I move, it\'s going to be at a snails pace with all senses on ultra high alert . We are close so don\'t blow it!

 

[Swede]

I am not sure there are any real right or absolute wrong answers. I am with Buglemaster on this. The time of the morning is a factor in my mind, In the second situation since we started bugling, I would give it more time to play out. In the first wait or walk, I would have moved on as there was nothing to encourage me to believe something was nearby. I could be wrong in both cases. One of the points I want to make is that patience is not blind to the situation. That is stubbornness. I can be stubborn too, but that is not good.

 

[Glacier Country]

Swede, I noticed in both of these Wait or Walk Scenarios, you mentioned you just cow called and then bugled. If I can interject and ask a question? What kind of cow talk and bugle? I am guessing just general cow /calf herd talk like the elk are just moving to bed feeding here and there as they go and a location bugle? Is the Bugle just a non threatening I\'m over here or more intense with more rasp to it. What Tone,Intensity and pitch?
The general cow /calf talk is a neutral call. If it sounds pretty good. Bad elk sounds put elk on alert.The location bugle is asking for a response. Mine is long and Very Loud.

In this situation I think I am close to the elk,I am pretty sure they will at least hear my calls. So no one has mentioned making calls that PORTRAY A SITUATION an elk might want to be invited to. So if I am your guide I might call in the whole herd, by inviting them to an elk party. It is Sept. 7th the party is about to begin, everybody is gearing up for that first hot cow. I might portray a situation that tells everybody that I am a 5 point that found the first one. I am going to whip out a High Heel Hottie and an Orange Enrager and give it a whirl. There will be a whole lot of tone , Intensity and Pitch going on. I might not call any in but I like my chances this way.

 

[Billy Goat]

I\'m sitting next to Buglemaster, and eventually walking with him, at the snails pace mentioned above.

 

[cnelk]

I have been in this situation.
Something that comes to mind is that Swede mentioned the fresh elk poop.
As it means there ARE elk somewhere in the area, it could also mean elk WERE in the area.

Many times elk will do their business in or near a bedding area as the get up and start moving.

Are you sure the elk havent left the area for the day?

 

[Deertick]

I have been in this situation.
Something that comes to mind is that Swede mentioned the fresh elk poop.
As it means there ARE elk somewhere in the area, it could also mean elk WERE in the area.

Many times elk will do their business in or near a bedding area as the get up and start moving.

Are you sure the elk havent left the area for the day?

My thoughts, too. Fresh poop, I think, means animals on the move. Where\'d they go?

(As a secondary question, why and when were they here?)

 

[Tdiesel]

Many times elk will do their business in or near a bedding area as the get up and start moving.

Are you sure the elk havent left the area for the day?

my exact thought thats why I posted as I did.

Deertick in my mind anyhow they are there at night feeding in those little openings and then climbing back up to the bedding grounds more than likley they will be back down in these meadows again the next night if undisturbed.
my question is how many days we have to hunt?

 

[razorback]

My inexperience tells me I\'m happy I just found some sign so be conservative. I like Troy\'s answer though, that\'s exactly how I hunt turkeys with good results. I would be tempted to do the same thing but I have no idea how my calls would be received. If I did go that route, I would first seek out a good set up where a bull had to stand within bow range to see the \"situation\" and I would be somewhat hidden. Move back about fifty yards and give my best at creating the situation along with raking trees. Once I felt satisfied I had created that situation I would move forward to my set up and wait for about 45 minutes. That\'s one of the game plans I hope to employ this fall, not sure how it will work as this year will be a learning experience. I see myself as a run and gun type elk hunter but those mountains will probably take the run right out of me :lolno:

 

[Swede]

What kind of cow talk and bugle? I am guessing just general cow /calf herd talk like the elk are just moving to bed feeding here and there as they go and a location bugle? Is the Bugle just a non threatening I\'m over here or more intense with more rasp to it. What Tone,Intensity and pitch?

Troy you are correct. Normally I am just using cow sounds, so that elk that may be in the area think I am another elk feeding along, or heading to bed down. There is no attitude to it at all. My location bugles are non threatening. I am looking for an answer. I do not bugle until I arrive at a place where I want to bring in a bull. If I get a distant answer I go to the bull and don\'t wait. I try to be careful not to bugle where a silent elk can come in and see where I am without giving me a shot, or I move away quickly from where I bugled so he is closer to me that he thinks when he comes to check things out.
The last few years I have been using Elknut\'s techniques to try to get a bull to come close. I also noted what Corey Jacobsen has suggested and plan to give that a try. I like the Orange Enrager a lot. It has great clarity and tone range. When you have your \"party\", what cow sounds do you use? Do the girls get carried away like the bull can?

 

[Swede]

Are you sure the elk havent left the area for the day?

I can\'t be sure. I really don\'t know where the elk are, except they are close. There is a slight hint of elk smell in the air. Several elk passed by here not more than 1/2 hour ago. They are stinking up the forest and pooping way too near the creek. One needs to be shot, but where are they? It is a little early for them to be bedding, but they are heading that way. If I move too fast I risk blowing the whole opportunity. If I linger and let them leave, I will never turn them back. My hope is that by calling I will get an answer and go from there. If they are real close I may draw in a bull.

 

[Glacier Country]

What kind of cow talk and bugle? I am guessing just general cow /calf herd talk like the elk are just moving to bed feeding here and there as they go and a location bugle? Is the Bugle just a non threatening I\'m over here or more intense with more rasp to it. What Tone,Intensity and pitch?

Troy you are correct. Normally I am just using cow sounds, so that elk that may be in the area think I am another elk feeding along, or heading to bed down. There is no attitude to it at all. My location bugles are non threatening. I am looking for an answer. I do not bugle until I arrive at a place where I want to bring in a bull. If I get a distant answer I go to the bull and don\'t wait. I try to be careful not to bugle where a silent elk can come in and see where I am without giving me a shot, or I move away quickly from where I bugled so he is closer to me that he thinks when he comes to check things out.
The last few years I have been using Elknut\'s techniques to try to get a bull to come close. I also noted what Corey Jacobsen has suggested and plan to give that a try. I like the Orange Enrager a lot. It has great clarity and tone range. When you have your \"party\", what cow sounds do you use? Do the girls get carried away like the bull can?

Swede, I use techniques similar to Corey Jacobsen, Quite a bit as well. Simple and Solid. I bet that Corey uses his bugle a lot to locate elk. His pitch is high but not def con 5 so it is pretty nonthreatening. At least his location bugle.
Back to the Question... In this Elk Party I am depicting an Estrous cow that a 5 point bull has found and is trying to impress. This cow is pretty receptive, and in this case is encouraging the bull by making loud demanding breeding sounds Estrous whines etc. I will be blowing on a bite call (High Heel Hottie)and making loud cow sounds on my Sweet Seduction, Sweet Temptation, or just for you on an Orange Enrager that is a little broken in. Then I will do some demanding 5 point bugles with that Enrager. I might then introduce another bull and some excited herd talk.
I realize that this might be just the opposite of what most guys would do but... It has worked countless times for me.
I was just talking with Dieter Kaboth RMEF World elk calling Champ at a calling contest last Sunday and we were talking about how far we have called in elk with just a simple bite call. A lot of Satellite bulls might come in for a look with this scenario first but, I have called in entire herds, sometimes with the herd bull leading the way! This is just a version of that, I am just painting a picture in all of the elks mind that there is an Elk Party going on and they are missing out. It just plays on their herd instinct and urge to breed. Double Trouble!
I am not an Elk Biologist... I probably think about elk more than any Elk Biologist I have ever talked to,and I have played one every fall since I was a little kid! That said,I also still think I have more to learn about elk and elk behavior. Hmm maybe I can get a grant to study elk with a bow in one hand and a camera in the other!

 

[WW]

Swede: You stated that you had a guide so I have a question for you. If he is the guide and you are the shooter, why are you calling in the first place? It\'s the guides job to bring an elk within your shooting range without it knowing you are there. By the shooter calling, that only attracts the elks attention to where you are.

As a former guide myself, I never allowed my hunters to call unless we were in a silent calling routine. I\'ve explained that technique several times in the past and I think Troy was touching on the same thing when he said inviting them to the party.

If you and your guide seem to think the elk are still fairly close by, the silent calling routine might very well be the way to go in this situation. If not, lace up those walking shoes.

 

[Swede]

WW: My guide is very accommodating and lets me do anything I can write. For this scenario it was cow calling to disguise what we were. Since we went in as a pair, we sounded like a small herd.