What to expect on DIY OTC Elk hunt

[pherrley]

A couple buddies and I went elk hunting last year in the Little Belts in Mt. All of us our elk hunting noobs; we walked in a few miles and camped for six days until getting snowed out (we crossed a bunch of creeks on our way in and were worried if the snow melted we wouldn?t be able to safely cross to get back out). We had only one encounter with elk the first day before shooting light, and came across what I think was a good amount of sign (rubs, scrapes, wallows, fresh scat). Other than that it was pretty uneventful.

We didn?t get drawn this year and are looking for OTC hunting locations again. We are thinking of going the same place we were last year, but aren?t sure if it?s a good location. Is seeing elk one time in six days average, or should we be seeking out new locations? What are your experiences with public land as far as elk numbers and encounters?

I appreciate any help

 

[iccyman001]

Glad you made it over here, pherrley . :wave:

For OTC options you have Montana, Colorado, Idaho, etc.
A lot of it will come down on how far you are willing to travel for your hunt.


Lets say you did pick the same place that you went last year, would you be able to do any type of preseason scouting?
You mentioned that you walked in a few miles and camped there. Were you bivy camping?
Tell us a little more about your encounter with the elk.

Sometimes it\'s good to be flexible when bivy camping. If it\'s dead, you need to be able to move.
That may actually help you pick your spot to hunt this year. You could base camp somewhere with options to go in any direction.
Then you are not just stuck to one spot.

Can you tell us a little bit more about the area you hunted. Elevation, dates, lots of public land, etc?


There are a great bunch of guys here who are willing to help.
So welcome again :upthumb:

 

[iccyman001]

If you don\'t mind me asking, what were your guys game plans and tactics for hunting them?

 

[Jaquomo]

I would never go back to that place, at least when you went there. Sounds like the elk were there and left before you arrived, for whatever reason.

Any OTC unit has elk, the trick is to be very mobile to find them. Don\'t hike in several miles to anywhere unless you find elk from your mobile base camp, and they\'re too far to realistically hunt from there. Then spike camp a little closer. Hiking in several miles to make a camp without knowing the elk are there is a recipe for a dry hunting week.

Get a variety of maps - USFS, StartMyHunt, DIYHunting Maps, OHV use maps for the area you\'re hunting, and figure out where the elk should be by roads and terrain. Pick out a half dozen options and study them from the satellite. Then be flexible and ready to keep moving. Once you\'re in the area, figure out where others are hunting, triangulate on your maps, and you\'ll find elk if you have security cover, forage, and water. Vehicles are your best friend for public land hunting, IMO. You can cover a lot of ground, hit different spots every morning and night until you find elk, then move closer if needed.

Last year I hunted a new unit in CO I\'d scouted, but never hunted before. I moved my camp six times during the season, covering an area of around 500 square miles. I was into elk of some sort almost every day, called-in 14 bulls, passed up a bunch, only saw other hunters in the woods four times, I think, and three of those were during opening few days of muzzleloader season. Most of the elk I found were within 1.5 miles of roads. Some within .5-.75 mile of county roads. The two biggest bulls I found, a 310 and a 330, were both close enough to county roads that I could hear vehicles driving by while I was working them. The 310 was close enough to a recreational ATV camp that I could hear people laughing and yelling while he was bugling.

During the last week I did an ATV spike camp and was into elk every day within .25-.5 miles from my camp at the end of the ATV road. Never saw another hunter that week. This is a very heavily-hunted unit, but the hunters are more predictable than the elk. Once I figured out the hunters in each different spot, I figured out the elk.

Good luck and be mobile, be creative, don\'t get tied down into one spot. Don\'t think you have to get \"way back in\" to kill elk.

 

[pherrley]

I should mention we are archery hunting.

We weren\'t bivy camping. We were all in tents, so we did have a base camp, and didn\'t move camp around too much while we were out there. We spent a lot of time on our feet while we were out there trying to cover ground; also spent some time sitting on wallows, anywhere between 5000 - 7500 ft elevation.

One of the guys going just got back after doing a little bit of scouting (more vacation than scouting) around out there, but not in one specific location that we had narrowed down. We are from Minnesota so scouting isn\'t the most convenient.

Our intention was to cover a lot of ground and spot and stalk, the area we were in was very thick so glassing wasn\'t too effective, at least for large areas.

We are going to be on foot again this year. none of us have an ATV. Our plan was to try to avoid ATV trails if possible to try to stay away from hunters, but Jaquomo makes it sound like that is not that big of a concern. Never the less that is our current plan. We\'ve spent quite a bit of time on maps and google earth trying to find something appealing but its hard to pinpoint something when there are so many unknown variables. We\'ve started looking at the Big Belts in Mt just based on the heard numbers, hoping that we can get some more opportunities.

 

[Swede]

Jacuomo said it well. The only thing I could add is it takes time to learn elk hunting. Time to learn the elk and the hunters that chase them. Also it takes time to learn the areas. It is not the general area, but specific places in the unit, or area that matters. There is nothing magical about being miles from a road, but getting away from high hunting pressure is.

 

[iccyman001]

ATV trails shouldn\'t worry you too much.
A lot of NM units allow ATVs.

A lot of the trails are from weekend campers or day trippers just out exploring. The elk have become used to it.

In a different light, people use ATVs to get in deeper than people on foot.
Well, think of all that land they pass by

Like Lou said, getting in deeper isn\'t always the answer.
I shot my elk 350 yards off the road last year and have many other spots that are right off the road that are hotspots.

I am not telling you to hunt close, just don\'t be put off by doing it.
How high up does your mountain chain get?

Where I hunt we find elk no lower than 7400 feet until LATE in the season, once the snow pushes them down.
Some food for thought. Is it possible you guys were still low?

You said you saw them early morning? Maybe the elk came down the mountain late in the evening to feed and then go back up early morning to bed.

 

[iccyman001]

You mentioned that you hunted over wallows and fresh sign.

Depending on when you were hunting, they might not have been hitting the wallows hard at that point.

I would change my focus on bedding, food, and water. I know you can\'t scout, but try to find it on google earth.
Then you could hit the travel routes while you guys are out there. Check for sign and see if they are using them.
That way you could set up on something like that verse a wallow that might only get used once or twice a week.

 

[mainebrdr]

Pherrley, glad to have you participate! Minnesota is well represented on this site.

 

[cnelk]

Pherrley
Welcome

I have hunted my areas for 26 years and still learn something each and every year.
It sounds like a bit more virtual scouting i.e. phone calls, Internet PMs, etc.?
Call the Forest service in whatever area you decide to hunt. Call the district wildlife manager, heck, call the mailmanUPS driver in the nearest town as they drive the outskirts roads everyday!
I guarantee there is someone that has info that will be helpful.

My typical archery week in an OTC unit here in Colorado will see 40 + elk. True close encounters prob about 8 or so.
And I don\'t hunt any further than a mile from my truck.
But I hunt 100 square miles of country.

Try not to bring the WT hunting style out West. I tried it and it just doesn\'t work.
Sure I hunt elk from tree stands sometimes, but in general the WT strategies aren\'t too popular or successful.

Your calling needs to be top-notch in OTC units.
The elk have heard it all. You need to make them believe!

 

[Zpd307]

Pherrley, glad to have you participate! Minnesota is well represented on this site.

it seems to be getting that way! I will add that spending a ton of time on here will up your chances. I was skunked up until last year, typical whitetail mentality.... after spending a year with the helpful tips from these guys, got me into more elk and a chance to put an arrow into a nice 6x.....

 

[pherrley]

Thanks for all the responses

Where we were hunting 7500 was the peak, at least in that area. The elk we saw was early morning before shooting light around 5000 feet. He was bugling quite a bit, and responding to bugles. There were at least a few cows tagging along, but we didn\'t see them. It was still dark enough that we could only make out the white body of the bull at 80 yards. He walked around us and must of caught our sent or picked us off because he spooked, ran back where he came from and that was that.

We\'re are heading out Sept 9 - 20 this year so hopefully we\'ll catch them in rut. If we are internet scouting, would it be best to try to hit areas with the most dense populations that are on public land? Or what other factors should be looked at. Mt gov does a pretty decent job of listing percentage of herd that is going to be on public and private. Not sure how reliable that is, but it is what we have. I\'ve been throwing possible locations out based on accessibility to this point. If I discount that as many of you said, that opens up the search. Am I going to get the most useful information from making calls around certain areas? Or looking at maps, and taking a shot at something?

 

[Jaquomo]

Adding to Swede\'s advice - there are so many variables. Your question about elk density is a good one. Density means lots of hunters. Areas with lots of elk aren\'t secrets anymore. I\'ve found the CPW population distribution data to be basically useless once the pressure hits. In fact, I\'d rather hunt a unit with lower elk density because that usually means fewer hunters.

I could point you to a big mountain in CO that has perhaps the highest elk density (per square mile) in the state. Right now there are hundreds of elk, and they will be there when the season starts. So many elk the CPW begs people to buy extra cow tags and shoot as many as possible. A friend sent me a panorama of a herd of about 400 on one sagebrush knob last week, public land. That\'s just one little herd for that area. They bed up in the timber on National Forest, and the trails look roto-tilled. The waterholes are unbelievable. Wallows look like bomb craters.

By the fifth day of archery season, all those elk are gone. Anyone arriving to hunt on September 4th will find amazing sign everywhere but no elk. They get pushed many miles by chain-reactions from overeager hunters hunting badly the first few days, hunting bedding areas, not watching wind. Two elk get spooked badly and they can take 80 away with them.

This is why super-mobility is critical. Cnelk can get away with hunting \"only\" 100 square miles because he has hunted his area for a couple decades. After last season, I\'ve now narrowed my options down to about 200 square miles. I hit a drainage here, a bench there, a valley over the top, until I find elk. Sometimes I move my camp, sometimes I drive 30 minutes in the dark in the morning. When I find elk I\'m very careful to not blow them out of bedding so I can hunt them for a couple days or more. As soon as I find fresh sign I stop, look at my map, look at the terrain, figure out why that sign is there, and whether it\'s likely morning sign or evening sign.

Sounds like the area where you hunted had elk in general vicinity. By \"general vicinity\", I mean an area maybe 10 miles long by 8 miles wide. Elk can easily move 2-3 miles in the night on their own during the rut, even with no pressure. I got to study unpressured elk during the rut for 20 years, and it\'s astounding how much they move, even in normal daily movements. Great sign can mean they were there in the mornings, but hunting there in the evenings will be a strike-out. Or vice-versa. I\'d say your biggest mistake was not covering enough ground. I don\'t mean on foot - but in vehicles and then on foot. You can find unpressured elk 400 yards off a road. And you can find lots of pressure 2-3 miles in, as on the big mountain I described earlier.

As suggested earlier, I\'d spend my preseason time \"scouting\" the roads and road access in the area. Then I\'d look for broken terrain in the area that has benches, long points for travel corridors, heavy timber patches on NE-facing slopes. I\'d identify about 10 spots like this in a 100 square mile area and figure out where to camp so you guys can branch out in different directions each morning and evening. Be prepared to launch out \"over there\" if another slope looks promising five miles away.

Sorry for the long-winded posts, but I want to help you guys figure this out. To hunt public land, you have to think backwards from what you\'ve probably heard. You should buy Matt Dworak\'s excellent book, \"Public Land Elk Hunting\" for a primer. FYI, the biggest bull killed in CO with a bow the year before last, grossed 381, was killed by a guy I know who was sitting on a log 1/4 mile off an ATV trail in a super-popular ATV recreating area. He was practicing cow calls on his way back to camp and the bull silently walked up to him. They are where nobody bothers them. That can be right beside a road where everybody else drives by. Hunting smarter doesn\'t mean hunting harder. It means out-smarting the other hunters.

 

[Swede]

I have hunted the same area now for over 20 years. I thought I knew the elk, but two years ago I was skunked. The elk did not come back into the area where I have public land access as they always had before. I thought it was a fluke, but it happened again last year. It is no fluke. The elk have changed their habits and are leaving public land shortly before and right at the start of the season and not coming back.
This summer I have taken the time to make two scouting trips. That is no guarantee of success, but I am hoping to get back in the game. I have options, even though I am going into new high pressure hunting areas.
Like many others I will have to be more flexible and mobile.

 

[Swede]

I forgot my manners a bit. Welcome to the forum Pherrley. It is good to have you in camp here. I am pleased you are joining right in and adding to the conversation. I am sure your thread will help others. I am working on the same dilemma you are dealing with. I am reading the posts to glean what I can from them too.
On this forum we have a lot of skilled and successful hunters who will share their knowledge with you and me. We have no windbag, self proclaimed final authority, that thinks they know more than everyone else. We have no one we all salute, and shut up for when they write something.
In real life we have all had different experiences, and have hunted different places and observed different things. Here we work together, or argue politely to try and provide the most complete information we can.
In this elk hunting game, we are either learning continuously, or we are falling behind. Again, welcome to BTO.
Best wishes.

 

[pherrley]

Thanks for all the welcomes, the site has been really helpful.

The answers I?ve been getting were not what I was expecting, so you?ve all helped quite a bit already. Jaquomo; that is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. I think that really applies well to the situation we are in. I?m not a big fan of packing up and driving somewhere else because of hunting time lost (we?re only there 10 days), so I wouldn?t have considered it before you said it.

Right now the plan is to go back to the same spot as last year, and cover all the ?hot? spots. If we are not on elk in a few days; pack up and move on to the next location.

I hope I am not misinterpreting what you?re all trying to tell me. Does this seem the proper way to increase odds of getting into some elk?

 

[cnelk]

Its not uncommon for me to put 600- 800 miles on my truck in 10 days of hunting.
And I use a base camp and travel to all my spots.

 

[iccyman001]

If you are set on going back then I would take what some people have said and use all the time you have before you go back to research and learn as MUCH as you can about elk and elk hunting.

That way you can go into the hunt with so many more tools in your tool box :upthumb:


Ask these guys as many questions as you can, they are all great.

 

[cnelk]

pherrley
Make one more post so your PM function will be available

Then send me a PM with some info and I will help you as much as I can by giving you some virtual insight of your spots if you want.
Dont worry, I wont share anything with anyone. And I dont hunt Montana

 

[Jaquomo]

pherrley, that is correct. And welcome to BTO from me, too. Brad does all of his jumping around from a base camp because he has learned a number of options within vehicle striking distance.

Since I\'m learning a new area, some of my spots are an hour drive away from each other, so it makes sense for me to pack up and move. My base camp is a small 16\' hard-side trailer so I can just hook up and go after a morning hunt when I\'ve decided to bail. But I will also leave my trailer parked and take a spike camp with a tent, sleeping bag and pad, stove and lantern, and camp beside my truck if I need to check out a spot before committing to a move.

I don\'t look at it as time lost, but rather time invested. Since I have to be out of the woods and away from the elk by about 9:30 a.m. due to swirling winds, and can\'t even attempt a move in the evening until about 7:00 p.m. for the same reason, I have all day to drive around, check where others are camping/hunting, even hike in and check tracks around some possible feeding meadows I\'ve found via satellite to see if there\'s recent activity on the entrance/exit trails. I\'ll often take my tent and truck camping gear and a little food with me so if I find something promising I can hunt the evening and morning before deciding on a plan.

I carry around a manila folder of laminated satellite views, both high-level and zoomed. In fact, I just finished putting eight more possible areas onto a flash drive that I\'m about to take into town to print and laminate as soon as I finish this post.

Also, I move lower in elevation as the season progresses. The first week I\'ll be around 10,200+ because I\'m hunting bachelor bulls that summer above timberline. Some of my spots at the high area are 25 miles apart so I camp midway. My next move is about a 1.5 hour drive to a spot in the mid-9000\'s range where there is rutting activity based on last year\'s experience and the rutting sign from multiple years past. If I haven\'t killed a good bull by the last week I\'ll be hunting about another 1.5 hours away (drive time in vehicle and ATV after I park) in a drainage where my base/spike camp is at 8,200.

The real key is to be highly mobile and do your homework on topos, satellite, and info from the biologists well before you arrive.. Either that or discover a true hotspot that nobody knows about, which holds elk year after year. I know two of those but they\'re so deep into the wilderness that I have no interest in going in there since I\'d rather kill one close to a road. But as cnelk and others have learned, you can cover a tiny bit of real estate (by western standards) on foot and maybe find an elk, or you can cover a lot of ground on tires and hit different spots within an hour\'s walk from the truck and cover the best habitat options within an entire region. I found half of my hot spots for this year during the season last year, by looking at map info and figuring out where others were not hunting. For some reason many walk right past obvious spots to go \"way back in\". I\'m glad they do!