What would you do...

[cohunter14]

Andy had a post in another thread that got me thinking of some of the differences between archery and rifle hunting. Not only are the animals not near as vocal during rifle season, but the seasons also don\'t last near as long. I know many on here are archery hunters, so I pose this question to all of you, both newer hunters and long-time hunters: what would you do and how would you approach a rifle hunt where the season lasted 7-10 days? Or, another way of phrasing it, how would you hunt if the elk were silent where calls weren\'t going to help and you only had 7-10 days?

Here\'s my thought process behind this...I am beginning to realize that the most difficult thing to do for rifle hunters is locating elk. You cannot simply setup and rip off location bugles hoping to find them. You have to be much more strategic to find the elk. You also don\'t have that many days to go about finding them, whereas some of you hunt multiple weeks at a time during archery, where you can move camp and cover a lot more ground. So, what\'s your plan of attack? How long are you giving an area before spending 1/2 a day moving camp?

I am thinking that some of the answers to this might not only help those of us who are rifle hunters, but it may help some of you archers as well

 

[Swede]

Derek, I think that is a great question. There are several reasons I went to bow hunting. The drawings for rifle hunts is one of them. As a bow hunter, I believe success is something I have more control over, even though it is a time consuming and sometimes exhausting process. I scout at home with the resources I have at hand, then I scout in the field. I have to practice my shooting a lot. The reward is, I get to hunt elk before they have been chased for weeks and even months.
In Oregon the rifle hunter has more draw units to deal with, so to get into a good area takes four or more years. It is hard to learn your area that way. When you get there the elk have been pushed around a lot. Your advantage is that in some areas you have less competition. Also you can reach out farther and do not have to be as selective in your shot. I think unless you have private land to hunt, rifle hunting is more a matter of luck.
I rifle hunted before the draw, and got elk every 2-3 years. For me it was a matter of boot leather and spending time out hunting.

 

[Baby Huey]

Derek, My group has rifle hunted and archery hunted in different units and we have come to know one unit very well with pre-hunt scouting and \"on-the-job-scouting\", i.e. during hunting season to get to know the area. Good knowledge of your area can help come rifle season. One of the things we looked for was where the roads and trails were in the area, as that would help us determine where hunters would be coming in. From there we looked at areas on the maps and Google Earth where we thought the elk would go after being pushed from these road areas. We hunt about 2-3 miles from roads and have found good areas for both rifle and archery season. It may be an anomaly for our area, but the areas we hunt are good for both rifle and archery seasons. This knowledge came with a lot of scouting and time in the country and paying attention to what the hunters were doing and where most were willing to travel from a road during the actual hunting season. Understanding these factors helped us pinpoint areas where we thought the elk would be and minimal or no hunters would be, and then explore them during both archery and rifle seasons.

When rifle season rolls around in Colorado, we typically can see the terrain better. This is primarily because the leaves have fallen off of the oak brush, willows and aspen trees. Now you can see deeper into the trees/bushes than you could have during archery season. This will allow for opportunities to find elk with your optics from afar. We continue to still hunt during the day and with the longer distances we can reach with a rifle and the use of optics, we do utilize more glassing from a good vantage point during rifle season. Looking into smaller parks or open patches in the trees/brush in the early morning and as the sun sets. This year I was set up on a small finger ridge that I was able to look across an oak brush hill across a creek. I could have shot a small 6x6, but I was not certain of the exact property line, so I let him walk. This is where I can now take my own advice and I know now where that spot is compared to the properly line. I gained more knowledge so I have more data in my toolbox for next year. A few minutes later my buddy took his bull in the next ridge over.

So, I would say to do some good scouting to try and understand your hunt area, but don\'t be reluctant to look at other areas in your unit or other units you hunt in order to find some likely elky areas based on pressure and terrain. Also, just because we hunt 2-3 miles from roads, that doesn\'t mean it will be like that in every unit, sometimes there are good areas right by the roads that hunters overlook because they may think they need to get \"way back in there\".

 

[otcWill]

I\'d plan on 10 mile days. Scout out the areas you wish to hunt in advance and still hunt all day long. Locate elk at night while they are bugling. I realize there are places that the elk go silent, but I\'ve never seen that in the spots I hunt otc CO and general WY. I don\'t rifle hunt elk myself but I do help others and tag along with friends. Some of the best bugling I\'ve heard is during first rifle in CO. One more tip, when elk in CO are pressured heavily, they almost always go to some private land. Keep this in mind and plan accordingly. Good luck!

 

[cnelk]

I was a rifle elk hunter before I started hunting archery elk. Even tho the \'archery season\' is longer than the rifle seasons, there is a misconception that all archers hunt the entire season. Some do I suppose, but most hunt the same time frame as a typical rifle hunt - 7 days +/-
So with being said, lets take the amount of time hunting out the equation.

When I rifle hunted elk, I hunted the \'pre\'-migration, not the rut.
That meant the same time of research to determine staging areas, and migration routes.
Snow was your friend, so was cold weather.
It wasnt easy hunting, but WOW did we kill elk!

One thing we knew that on any given day, a valley could be full of elk when the day before there wasnt a track.
It was a waiting game and also keep looking other draws and areas, spreading out until we found them.

If youre going to rifle hunt, a person should decide if you want to hunt the rut [early rifle] or migration [late rifle]
Each have their benefits, but it basically boils down to how you want to hunt.

All I know is that when I switched from rifle elk to archery elk, my success rate went from 50% to 90%, but that probable because it fits more my style of hunting.

I sure was fun tho! And I still like to go get a cow tag and shoot one with my ifle

 

[OldMan]

I am a rifle hunter. Maybe that\'s why I never got involved with calling. Although I think the real reason is it doesn\'t suit my style of hunting. Maybe my method of hunting makes more sense to you bow hunters now. During the rut the bulls are hooked up with the cows. They\'re a bit stupid during the rut, and are driven by their hormones. They will come to calls, and make themselves easy targets.

When I hunt the bulls are done with the rut, are tired and hungry to put the fat back on. They go off by themselves. That\'s perfect for me. It\'s much easier to sneak in on one bull than a small herd with all the cows as lookouts. So, lots of scouting to find out where the bulls go to post rut. Migration routes are only slightly important for me, because the larger bulls come down from higher altitudes last. Going for a younger bull would mean looking at migration routes, and of course for cows too.

Even though I use a muzzleloader i\'ve only hunted the muzzleloader season once. I always hunt the rifle seasons with the muzzy. Just like i\'m going to do this year. Sept is just too hot for me. Hunting for me means cold and snow.

Maybe my methods make more sense to some of you now. I\'m sure you wondered why does he hunt like that? Why doesn\'t he call? How can he sneak up on a whole herd? Now you know.


btw One of my most productive times to scout is during bow season, and 1st rifle season. It prepares me for what i\'m going to do for 2nd rifle season.

 

[razorback]

I like the question :clap: I don\'t have much for an answer. It seems very similiar to my first and ony elk hunt last year. As a NR going to CO for an early season archery elk. Bulls didn\'t talk much at all so all I could do was walk and scout on the go. Following this one!

 

[Swede]

Even tho the \'archery season\' is longer than the rifle seasons, there is a misconception that all archers hunt the entire season. Some do I suppose, but most hunt the same time frame as a typical rifle hunt - 7 days +/-So with being said, lets take the amount of time hunting out the equation.

I agree. Actually each season has its advantages and disadvantages. The States design it that way. Gun hunters statistically do a little better, but I believe that is because many archery hunters never made the conversion in their minds. They are still gun hunters with a gun they don\'t understand. Many can\'t shoot it and their arrows don\'t fly right. As an archer, the sorriest mess you can come up with is, a rifle hunter carrying a bow in one hand and an elk bugle in another.
I suppose there may be some that would say, there is no such thing as a rifle hunter carrying a bow. There are many examples where this happens. Two of the funniest are 1. people that buy their first and only bow with some arrows, the afternoon before the start of the season. Another is seeing/hearing a half dozen hunters, spread out bugling and trying to drive the elk.

 

[cohunter14]

Sorry for the lack of response on this thread...had a crazy week that just finished with some moving, so haven\'t had a whole lot of time to be on here.

Good knowledge of your area can help come rifle season. One of the things we looked for was where the roads and trails were in the area, as that would help us determine where hunters would be coming in. From there we looked at areas on the maps and Google Earth where we thought the elk would go after being pushed from these road areas. We hunt about 2-3 miles from roads and have found good areas for both rifle and archery season. It may be an anomaly for our area, but the areas we hunt are good for both rifle and archery seasons. This knowledge came with a lot of scouting and time in the country and paying attention to what the hunters were doing and where most were willing to travel from a road during the actual hunting season. Understanding these factors helped us pinpoint areas where we thought the elk would be and minimal or no hunters would be, and then explore them during both archery and rifle seasons.

This is a great point Roman. You need to know where the elk go when ATV\'s start cruising up and down the roads and those two legged critters start wandering through the woods, especially in OTC rifle areas.

When rifle season rolls around in Colorado, we typically can see the terrain better. This is primarily because the leaves have fallen off of the oak brush, willows and aspen trees. Now you can see deeper into the trees/bushes than you could have during archery season. This will allow for opportunities to find elk with your optics from afar. We continue to still hunt during the day and with the longer distances we can reach with a rifle and the use of optics, we do utilize more glassing from a good vantage point during rifle season. Looking into smaller parks or open patches in the trees/brush in the early morning and as the sun sets.

Another great point. I think when the elk aren\'t vocal, you need to have a plan to find the elk. Getting somewhere where you can cover a lot of ground with your eyes saves a lot of miles on the boots. Your point about the leaves being on the ground is a great one as well. I have hunted areas during first rifle where the leaves hadn\'t fallen in certain areas and it made glassing very difficult.

 

[cohunter14]

I\'d plan on 10 mile days. Scout out the areas you wish to hunt in advance and still hunt all day long.

Very interesting Will. I have tried the 10 mile days before, just trying to cover as much ground as possible. I think that can be good, but to cover 10 miles, you can\'t really be still hunting the whole time. However, you definitely need to move slow even when covering a lot of ground, so I understand what you are saying.

Locate elk at night while they are bugling. I realize there are places that the elk go silent, but I\'ve never seen that in the spots I hunt otc CO and general WY. I don\'t rifle hunt elk myself but I do help others and tag along with friends. Some of the best bugling I\'ve heard is during first rifle in CO.

That is also very interesting. I have never once heard a bugle during rifle season, but then again I wouldn\'t ever be accused of having the best hearing either. However, I don\'t recall anyone that I hunt with ever hearing one either. It is interesting that you mentioned hearing them at night though. Do you use location bugles or anything like that to locate them at that time? Are you just hearing them from camp?

One more tip, when elk in CO are pressured heavily, they almost always go to some private land. Keep this in mind and plan accordingly. Good luck!

I think that is a good point and it ties into what Roman mentioned earlier. I don\'t think elk necessarily go straight to private land, but they go where they aren\'t being pressured. Sometimes that may be a private ranch that doesn\'t get hunted, but it can also be an area that doesn\'t get many hunters. Knowing where the elk will go when the pressure arrives is definitely a key thing to try to find in a good area though.

 

[cohunter14]

I was a rifle elk hunter before I started hunting archery elk. Even tho the \'archery season\' is longer than the rifle seasons, there is a misconception that all archers hunt the entire season. Some do I suppose, but most hunt the same time frame as a typical rifle hunt - 7 days +/-
So with being said, lets take the amount of time hunting out the equation.

Brad, the reason I just brought that to light was to get an idea of how soon people move on to another location. I think how long you have to hunt can dictate that. The difference between hunting four days, seven days, ten days, or twenty days can change a lot of things. I think the more time you have, the more you are able to be patient and wait for the elk versus having to make something happen.

When I rifle hunted elk, I hunted the \'pre\'-migration, not the rut.
That meant the same time of research to determine staging areas, and migration routes.
Snow was your friend, so was cold weather.
It wasnt easy hunting, but WOW did we kill elk!

One thing we knew that on any given day, a valley could be full of elk when the day before there wasnt a track.
It was a waiting game and also keep looking other draws and areas, spreading out until we found them.

Very interesting Brad. So would you just post up in those valleys and wait, hoping that the elk would start staging into an area? I have never hunted the later rifle seasons, but that sounds interesting.

If youre going to rifle hunt, a person should decide if you want to hunt the rut [early rifle] or migration [late rifle]
Each have their benefits, but it basically boils down to how you want to hunt.

I don\'t know if the early rifle seasons are still considered during the rut, are they? I guess it could be, but it seems to me that the rutting has pretty much slowed down at that time. When I have found herds of cows during the rifle seasons, I have never seen a bull with them other than a spike. Personally, I think the early rifle seasons are more of a transition period between the rut and the migration.

All I know is that when I switched from rifle elk to archery elk, my success rate went from 50% to 90%, but that probable because it fits more my style of hunting.

I can totally understand that! As I mentioned in the first post, finding elk is more than half the battle and it sure seems easier to do that when they are vocal.

 

[cohunter14]

When I hunt the bulls are done with the rut, are tired and hungry to put the fat back on. They go off by themselves. That\'s perfect for me. It\'s much easier to sneak in on one bull than a small herd with all the cows as lookouts. So, lots of scouting to find out where the bulls go to post rut. Migration routes are only slightly important for me, because the larger bulls come down from higher altitudes last. Going for a younger bull would mean looking at migration routes, and of course for cows too.

Even though I use a muzzleloader i\'ve only hunted the muzzleloader season once. I always hunt the rifle seasons with the muzzy.

Pete, your thoughts are the same as mine in regards to the bulls being by themselves in the earlier rifle seasons. Do you find that the bulls typically go to the same location(s) each year during the post rut? I know you spend a lot of time watching the elk in your area, so I am interested to hear your thoughts on that. For example, does the same bull typically head to the same general area unless he is bothered by a hunter? Do multiple bulls do the same thing, heading to the same general area where you can look and say \'the big bulls will typically head into this area right here post rut\'?

btw One of my most productive times to scout is during bow season, and 1st rifle season. It prepares me for what i\'m going to do for 2nd rifle season.

That is a great piece of advice there Pete. Some of my most successful scouting trips have been during the rut when the elk are vocal. It sure helps to know where they are that time of year, which is only a few weeks away from us getting into the woods. I think I might have to try to time my scouting accordingly this year... :think:

 

[cohunter14]

Bumping this back up so hopefully some of the previous posters will see the questions I put in here...OTCWill, cnelk, and still hunter, would love to hear your thoughts!

More questions posed to anyone and everyone:
1) In this scenario when locating elk is not based on vocal elk, how long do you give a given area before moving on? For example, say you hunt a 2-8 square mile area on your first day and don\'t turn up any elk and not much for fresh sign...are you hunting it again tomorrow? If not, how far away are you going?

2) If you are in an area that doesn\'t have many high points to glass from, how else are you going about trying to find elk? What areas are you targeting and what time of day? For example, water, saddles, bedding areas, etc.

 

[cnelk]

Derek,
I like to slice and dice thru an area to find elk sign. Check out the typical spots of travel to determine any movement.
I wont waste any time until I find sign. Then hunt that area. I will broaden my slice/dice until I find sign.
2-8 sq miles should hold elk somewhere!

 

[mainebrdr]

Derek, those last two questions you had are ones I seem to ask myself every year.

Brad, please explain how your last statement fits in with the rest of your post. If you sliced and diced an area the approximate size you stated and found no sign do you go again since \"2 to 8 sq. miles should hold elk somewhere\". When that happens to me, as a comparative rookie, I\'m thinking, are they in here and I just can\'t find them? Did I bump them out. What would Brad do?!

 

[cohunter14]

Brad, here is an example of an area that is approximately 8 square miles of huntable land. This is just a random area in Colorado, but I blacked out a few things so there aren\'t 100 people showing up there next year!

Anyway, can you give us an example of how you would \'slice and dice\' this area? BTW, I like that you said 2-8 square miles should hold some elk somewhere...the problem is sometimes just finding where But I assume you don\'t always find elk in areas of this size since you hunt approximately 100 square miles.