cohunter14
Administrator
- Jul 10, 2017
- 5,431
\"cnelk\" said:And your elk calls....
:haha: Are those camo too?
2014 Lessons Learned
- Thread starter cnelk
- Start date
:haha: Are those camo too?
That no matter the outcome of the hunt the most important thing is spending time with amazing friends in gods country. The memories created and the relationships forged. The realization that you have special people in your life that would do amazing things for you.
\"elkmtngear\" said:
Excellent question! We actually had the reverse situation...a squirrel peed on one of my hunting partners! (I never thought I\'d be using \"squirrel\" and \"pee\" in the same sentence on a regular basis, but I have infamous elk camp 2014 to thank for that...)
elkmtngear
New member
- Aug 9, 2017
- 1,152
\"ABQ_Chica\" said:
LOL, that\'s hilarious! I\'ll bet you had a good laugh (since it wasn\'t you that got peed on)!
This will be long-winded, but hopefully it has a couple helpful tidbits:
This season I moved to a new area closer to home, where I could scout all summer. It has a much lower elk density than where I hunted previously, but also presumably (hopefully?) lower hunter density. It has one of the lowest archery success rates in the state. The other area I hunted had big herds, sometimes in the hundreds, plenty of open country where they were visible, and lots of hunters pushing them around. This new area has lots of thick timber and deadfall, pocket meadows and parks hidden in the timber, and small herds.
I scouted all summer and hunted 26 days (all solo except for a couple days when I was joined by IA Hunter), exploring more than a dozen different spots during the season. Some of those I\'d scouted on foot or from GE. Others were ones I decided to hit on a whim when moving from one area to another, based upon where others were (or were not) camped. It is virtually all public land, so no big private sanctuaries for them to escape into. I moved my camp five times and hunted from 10,700 down to 8,200\'.
Here\'s what I learned:
Most of the scouting I did in the summer was useless other than to learn the lay of the land, since I couldn\'t predict where hunters would be. Also, many solitary/bachelor bulls that were in places during the summer and during the first week of the season moved to completely different areas for the rut, even without any hunter pressure. Hot early wallows became mostly unused after they moved.
There seemed to be primarily three types of bowhunters in the area - older guys who\'ve hunted the area for years who don\'t want to walk very far, who hunt predictable waterholes from treestands, etc.. who like large camps and camaraderie and rarely kill anything. The \"hunt deep and far\" younger go-getters who may or may not find elk way back in where they\'ve packed. And the guys who ride ATVs or 4WDs to obvious spots, venture out a bit and call a little, then head to another spot. Or they keep hitting familiar spots hoping elk will come back.
There are big bulls that live close to roads, in thick hidey holes, that don\'t bugle much during the season but come in silently to calls. Most of the bulls I called-in came in silently after about 30 minutes of calling. A few others in very thick cover came in quickly to locator bugles but were pretty wary. I had several inside 30-40 yards and never saw them.
Elk will travel miles from bedding to night feeding, will cycle for miles around an area on their own even with no human pressure, and don\'t necessarily return to the same bedding areas they left, sometimes for a week or more. This season there was water everywhere and tons of feed, so in a dryer season they should concentrate a little more.
In the little drainage I hunted for the last week, I saw different elk every day at the same evening funnel and morning transition, and never did figure out where they originated from in the morning to get to the bedding ridge where they came from in the evenings. I never saw the same elk twice, and never spooked any that I know of, except for a bull I tried to kill on the last night. There were no other hunters for miles in any direction, so the elk were doing this traveling on their own. They may have started traveling in early afternoon but I couldn\'t hunt until close to sunset due to fickle wind.
After I started patterning the hunters, I began figuring out my hunting strategy on the fly, hitting random spots that appeared to be unpressured but not terribly far in (I\'m 60, in great shape, hunting solo). Almost everywhere I went, I found elk with a bit of effort. Some spots were 2.5 miles from any road, and I hiked in and out in the dark to be where the elk were at the right time. I had legit opportunities at five different 300+ bulls (hunting with a recurve, just not quite able to close the deal), all within 3/4 to 1 mile of primary vehicle roads. I passed up some smaller bulls at close range because I wanted to spend as much time learning my new area as possible.
I only saw or heard other hunters in the woods on four outings, and two of those times were mornings during ML season. I heard or saw elk every day but four, and three of those days were crappy weather where I didn\'t give it a good effort or stayed away from where I thought elk would be.
I learned that elk in thick timber in heavily hunted areas often don\'t make much noise, and during ML season many buglers got shot. The quiet ones in the same areas went on about their business and weren\'t bothered much unless somebody stumbled into their bedding areas. (This corresponds to a recent study done on collared elk where they monitored 45 2.5 year old bulls during a summer and fall. The open-country bulls and \"runners\" were almost all killed during one of the various hunting seasons that year, while the sneaky-hiders almost all survived)
I did not kill an elk, but it was by my choice. I wanted to learn as much as possible so I could find some unpressured spots where I can kill a bull every year in the future and not be bothered by other hunters. I believe I accomplished that. I still have an opportunity to nuke a cow with a rifle next week, so hopefully my gamble to learn will still pay off with meat in the freezer.
This season I moved to a new area closer to home, where I could scout all summer. It has a much lower elk density than where I hunted previously, but also presumably (hopefully?) lower hunter density. It has one of the lowest archery success rates in the state. The other area I hunted had big herds, sometimes in the hundreds, plenty of open country where they were visible, and lots of hunters pushing them around. This new area has lots of thick timber and deadfall, pocket meadows and parks hidden in the timber, and small herds.
I scouted all summer and hunted 26 days (all solo except for a couple days when I was joined by IA Hunter), exploring more than a dozen different spots during the season. Some of those I\'d scouted on foot or from GE. Others were ones I decided to hit on a whim when moving from one area to another, based upon where others were (or were not) camped. It is virtually all public land, so no big private sanctuaries for them to escape into. I moved my camp five times and hunted from 10,700 down to 8,200\'.
Here\'s what I learned:
Most of the scouting I did in the summer was useless other than to learn the lay of the land, since I couldn\'t predict where hunters would be. Also, many solitary/bachelor bulls that were in places during the summer and during the first week of the season moved to completely different areas for the rut, even without any hunter pressure. Hot early wallows became mostly unused after they moved.
There seemed to be primarily three types of bowhunters in the area - older guys who\'ve hunted the area for years who don\'t want to walk very far, who hunt predictable waterholes from treestands, etc.. who like large camps and camaraderie and rarely kill anything. The \"hunt deep and far\" younger go-getters who may or may not find elk way back in where they\'ve packed. And the guys who ride ATVs or 4WDs to obvious spots, venture out a bit and call a little, then head to another spot. Or they keep hitting familiar spots hoping elk will come back.
There are big bulls that live close to roads, in thick hidey holes, that don\'t bugle much during the season but come in silently to calls. Most of the bulls I called-in came in silently after about 30 minutes of calling. A few others in very thick cover came in quickly to locator bugles but were pretty wary. I had several inside 30-40 yards and never saw them.
Elk will travel miles from bedding to night feeding, will cycle for miles around an area on their own even with no human pressure, and don\'t necessarily return to the same bedding areas they left, sometimes for a week or more. This season there was water everywhere and tons of feed, so in a dryer season they should concentrate a little more.
In the little drainage I hunted for the last week, I saw different elk every day at the same evening funnel and morning transition, and never did figure out where they originated from in the morning to get to the bedding ridge where they came from in the evenings. I never saw the same elk twice, and never spooked any that I know of, except for a bull I tried to kill on the last night. There were no other hunters for miles in any direction, so the elk were doing this traveling on their own. They may have started traveling in early afternoon but I couldn\'t hunt until close to sunset due to fickle wind.
After I started patterning the hunters, I began figuring out my hunting strategy on the fly, hitting random spots that appeared to be unpressured but not terribly far in (I\'m 60, in great shape, hunting solo). Almost everywhere I went, I found elk with a bit of effort. Some spots were 2.5 miles from any road, and I hiked in and out in the dark to be where the elk were at the right time. I had legit opportunities at five different 300+ bulls (hunting with a recurve, just not quite able to close the deal), all within 3/4 to 1 mile of primary vehicle roads. I passed up some smaller bulls at close range because I wanted to spend as much time learning my new area as possible.
I only saw or heard other hunters in the woods on four outings, and two of those times were mornings during ML season. I heard or saw elk every day but four, and three of those days were crappy weather where I didn\'t give it a good effort or stayed away from where I thought elk would be.
I learned that elk in thick timber in heavily hunted areas often don\'t make much noise, and during ML season many buglers got shot. The quiet ones in the same areas went on about their business and weren\'t bothered much unless somebody stumbled into their bedding areas. (This corresponds to a recent study done on collared elk where they monitored 45 2.5 year old bulls during a summer and fall. The open-country bulls and \"runners\" were almost all killed during one of the various hunting seasons that year, while the sneaky-hiders almost all survived)
I did not kill an elk, but it was by my choice. I wanted to learn as much as possible so I could find some unpressured spots where I can kill a bull every year in the future and not be bothered by other hunters. I believe I accomplished that. I still have an opportunity to nuke a cow with a rifle next week, so hopefully my gamble to learn will still pay off with meat in the freezer.
Lou ... interesting stuff there.
The General Unit closest to me fits that description: Thick, beetle-killed, pocket meadows, heavily hunted, and quiet bulls. I\'ve opted to drive further to hunt more vocal animals with less competition, but ... geez, they\'re right there, and I would be able to hunt them on weekends if I only had a strategy. There are plenty of elk in the unit, BTW.
So, I\'m putting together some \"Weekend Hunts\" for next year to compliment my week-off/drive further hunt. As for strategies, I\'m thinking:
1. Treestands, in transition areas, like Cnelk uses.
2. Finding those hidden jewels like you found that can be hunted without pack-horses, satellite communications, and a Rokslide sponsorship.
I\'m wondering, Lou, not so much what you looked for as far as where to find elk, but what strategies you used in those areas.
You mentioned 30 minutes of calling. Cold calls, sounding like a small herd of cows, or a lost cow?
Ambush at pinch-points?
Where you were, and where I\'m talking about, it doesn\'t sound like glassing would do anyone any good. And, as you mentioned, the bugling bulls are few and far between, and maybe they\'re toward the bottom of the class.
The General Unit closest to me fits that description: Thick, beetle-killed, pocket meadows, heavily hunted, and quiet bulls. I\'ve opted to drive further to hunt more vocal animals with less competition, but ... geez, they\'re right there, and I would be able to hunt them on weekends if I only had a strategy. There are plenty of elk in the unit, BTW.
So, I\'m putting together some \"Weekend Hunts\" for next year to compliment my week-off/drive further hunt. As for strategies, I\'m thinking:
1. Treestands, in transition areas, like Cnelk uses.
2. Finding those hidden jewels like you found that can be hunted without pack-horses, satellite communications, and a Rokslide sponsorship.
I\'m wondering, Lou, not so much what you looked for as far as where to find elk, but what strategies you used in those areas.
You mentioned 30 minutes of calling. Cold calls, sounding like a small herd of cows, or a lost cow?
Ambush at pinch-points?
Where you were, and where I\'m talking about, it doesn\'t sound like glassing would do anyone any good. And, as you mentioned, the bugling bulls are few and far between, and maybe they\'re toward the bottom of the class.
Dr. Deertick, my herd/cow blind-calling was mostly in the evenings at pinch points where a bull would expect cows to be. In the mornings I covered ground and occasionally gave a locator bugle or loud cow call, in transition areas where I expected bulls to head to bedding (or roam in their daily search to check bedding areas for cows).
When the elk were safely in bed, I looked for other pinch points between bedding and feeding, tracks and trails leading into and leaving obvious feeding areas, wallows, tracks crossing funnels, and tried to put the overall picture together of where they fed, traveled, bedded, and why. I walked through transition areas to look for fresh sign. I had Bing satellite printouts of basically the entire area where I hunted, and used these to help decipher the program in each of the spots I hunted. I also tried to figure out where the other hunters were hunting and in which direction, so I could guess where elk could go when bumped. This was valuable, since many of the hunters hunted long after they should have been back in camp, and were trying to sneak through bedding areas with the bad wind.
My calling setup for the evenings is to sound like a normal herd milling around. I have a couple sticks of different sizes and use them to \"drum\" on a log to make different sounds of hooves hitting logs, sometimes breaking small sticks. I use two different diaphragms and an open reed call. I offer some calls through a tube to redirect the sound or amplify the volume, and vary between soft cow-calf talk and an occasionally loud bossy lead cow. I think I called in 14 different bulls this way, and only one made any sound at all (other than hearing a hoof hit a log or break a stick). That was a 330-class bull that whined softly 70 yards out in the timber, about 25 minutes after I\'d started calling.
Hope this helps!
When the elk were safely in bed, I looked for other pinch points between bedding and feeding, tracks and trails leading into and leaving obvious feeding areas, wallows, tracks crossing funnels, and tried to put the overall picture together of where they fed, traveled, bedded, and why. I walked through transition areas to look for fresh sign. I had Bing satellite printouts of basically the entire area where I hunted, and used these to help decipher the program in each of the spots I hunted. I also tried to figure out where the other hunters were hunting and in which direction, so I could guess where elk could go when bumped. This was valuable, since many of the hunters hunted long after they should have been back in camp, and were trying to sneak through bedding areas with the bad wind.
My calling setup for the evenings is to sound like a normal herd milling around. I have a couple sticks of different sizes and use them to \"drum\" on a log to make different sounds of hooves hitting logs, sometimes breaking small sticks. I use two different diaphragms and an open reed call. I offer some calls through a tube to redirect the sound or amplify the volume, and vary between soft cow-calf talk and an occasionally loud bossy lead cow. I think I called in 14 different bulls this way, and only one made any sound at all (other than hearing a hoof hit a log or break a stick). That was a 330-class bull that whined softly 70 yards out in the timber, about 25 minutes after I\'d started calling.
Hope this helps!
That is helpful ... but don\'t you wish you\'d have found more vocal bulls?
Anyway, where I\'m talking about going, too, is a place where bulls are largely quiet. Yet, they are there in numbers, and they must be huntable somehow.
Patterning hunters is sometimes easier than patterning elk. Hunters, after all, really are more likely to stick with a particular pattern.
Do you ever find yourself just marking up maps with big red \"X\"s that would show where hunters are likely to be?
Anyway, where I\'m talking about going, too, is a place where bulls are largely quiet. Yet, they are there in numbers, and they must be huntable somehow.
Patterning hunters is sometimes easier than patterning elk. Hunters, after all, really are more likely to stick with a particular pattern.
Do you ever find yourself just marking up maps with big red \"X\"s that would show where hunters are likely to be?
Vocal bulls are wonderful, but unless you\'re pretty remote, vocal bulls call in hunters, so you have to get in and make it count quickly or they\'ll get blown out. I did find one spot with vocal bulls but it was during the first week and a half, and they left to go find cows (it was the summer range for bachelor bulls, I figured out later). They would bugle right before dark, and were never in the same spot two evenings in a row. I called it playing Whack-A-Mole.
During opening weekend of ML season, a couple times I heard \"bugle.... bugle.... bugle.... BANG!\"
As far as other hunters, many areas where I expected hunters to be prior to the season, they were not. Other spots I expected I\'d have all to myself had a camp or two not far away. But if I hiked or rode around to the other side of the ridge I was all alone and most of the time found elk. Some real obvious spots (too obvious?) with bulls had very little or no hunting pressure. I also learned that the USFS has no interest in enforcing the 14 day camping rule and people know it, so guys would put in base camps, trailers, wall tents a week or so before the season and leave them there until the season ended, hunting when they could.
One tricky part was figuring out where the jumping-off point was for the ATV hunters - where they parked to hunt when they struck out from camps. But seemed like they were hesitant to hunt more than an honest 3/4 mile from the road, and were hardly ever in there early enough, nor staying in late enough. Too many guys were way too willing to tell me where they were hunting, where they saw or heard elk, where other guys were seeing elk. I then planned my explorations a mile or so away from them where I figured elk would go if boogered, and never ran into others.
Honestly, I\'d rather have big, quiet bulls that aren\'t being chased all over and will respond to calling, than to race guys to bugling bulls in the mornings. That\'s how it was in the area I left behind (literally..), and why I left to find a hunting spot in a place with fewer elk, fewer hunters, and where I can find elk reasonably close for a 60 year old guy to pack out alone. A couple mornings I was into bugling bulls, and I was, like, \"SHUT UP!!!!\"
Sounds like you have an ideal spot, really. Learn where they bed and feed, hunt them carefully, call them in, and then get your bugling jollies up at RMNP while sitting beside the road and eating a fat, juicy steak sandwich from the silent bull you killed. If you want bugling bulls, I can send you to where I left. Just bring your track shoes!
During opening weekend of ML season, a couple times I heard \"bugle.... bugle.... bugle.... BANG!\"
As far as other hunters, many areas where I expected hunters to be prior to the season, they were not. Other spots I expected I\'d have all to myself had a camp or two not far away. But if I hiked or rode around to the other side of the ridge I was all alone and most of the time found elk. Some real obvious spots (too obvious?) with bulls had very little or no hunting pressure. I also learned that the USFS has no interest in enforcing the 14 day camping rule and people know it, so guys would put in base camps, trailers, wall tents a week or so before the season and leave them there until the season ended, hunting when they could.
One tricky part was figuring out where the jumping-off point was for the ATV hunters - where they parked to hunt when they struck out from camps. But seemed like they were hesitant to hunt more than an honest 3/4 mile from the road, and were hardly ever in there early enough, nor staying in late enough. Too many guys were way too willing to tell me where they were hunting, where they saw or heard elk, where other guys were seeing elk. I then planned my explorations a mile or so away from them where I figured elk would go if boogered, and never ran into others.
Honestly, I\'d rather have big, quiet bulls that aren\'t being chased all over and will respond to calling, than to race guys to bugling bulls in the mornings. That\'s how it was in the area I left behind (literally..), and why I left to find a hunting spot in a place with fewer elk, fewer hunters, and where I can find elk reasonably close for a 60 year old guy to pack out alone. A couple mornings I was into bugling bulls, and I was, like, \"SHUT UP!!!!\"
Sounds like you have an ideal spot, really. Learn where they bed and feed, hunt them carefully, call them in, and then get your bugling jollies up at RMNP while sitting beside the road and eating a fat, juicy steak sandwich from the silent bull you killed. If you want bugling bulls, I can send you to where I left. Just bring your track shoes!
cohunter14
Administrator
- Jul 10, 2017
- 5,431
1) Finding elk is still the toughest part of hunting elk
2) 2.5 days is simply not enough time for an elk hunt
3) Learning an area takes a ton of time spent and years hunting. After leaving an area we hunted for a very long time, this has become a very difficult realization for me to face. I think finding an area closer to home that would allow for more scouting would really give me an advantage as well. When you can\'t get out and get boots on the ground, you spend some of the hunt doing exactly that. Regardless, time spent hunting an area is what matters the most. As jaquomo pointed out above, you have to know what other hunters are doing and how the elk react to that. You also need to know what the weather will do to them.
4) Hunt in a style that fits your needs and desires. Some guys love stand hunting, others prefer still hunting, others like the \'run and gun\' method, some like to spot and stalk, etc. I still don\'t know what style fits me best after 19 years of hunting, but I am learning more and more what styles do not work for me.
5) Do not base your hunt on others in your camp. Do what you feel is best for you. Some of this might factor into #4 above.
6) If you have a questionable shot on an elk and find blood, whether the shot was with an arrow or a bullet, give it time before chasing after the tracks!
7) No matter what you do during the hunt, you have to make it enjoyable. After all, this is a hobby and a vacation. This is the first year where I got home and thought to myself \'was that really fun?\' I busted my tail from before dark to after dark each day to the point that I am absolutely dragging, even 23 hours after getting home. Granted, a lot of that is in the style of how I hunted this year and how many miles I put on the boots each day, but I look back now and wonder where the time went to enjoy the hunt and the company I kept within our camp. Instead, I feel like it was go, go, go from the time I got to camp until the time I left, with no time to sit back, take a breath, and remember what it was all about. Way too much like what the real world is all about these days and exactly what you try to escape when hunting. That will not happen again.
I am sure there will be more and I will add on when I think of those things. My body and brain is still a little fried...
2) 2.5 days is simply not enough time for an elk hunt
3) Learning an area takes a ton of time spent and years hunting. After leaving an area we hunted for a very long time, this has become a very difficult realization for me to face. I think finding an area closer to home that would allow for more scouting would really give me an advantage as well. When you can\'t get out and get boots on the ground, you spend some of the hunt doing exactly that. Regardless, time spent hunting an area is what matters the most. As jaquomo pointed out above, you have to know what other hunters are doing and how the elk react to that. You also need to know what the weather will do to them.
4) Hunt in a style that fits your needs and desires. Some guys love stand hunting, others prefer still hunting, others like the \'run and gun\' method, some like to spot and stalk, etc. I still don\'t know what style fits me best after 19 years of hunting, but I am learning more and more what styles do not work for me.
5) Do not base your hunt on others in your camp. Do what you feel is best for you. Some of this might factor into #4 above.
6) If you have a questionable shot on an elk and find blood, whether the shot was with an arrow or a bullet, give it time before chasing after the tracks!
7) No matter what you do during the hunt, you have to make it enjoyable. After all, this is a hobby and a vacation. This is the first year where I got home and thought to myself \'was that really fun?\' I busted my tail from before dark to after dark each day to the point that I am absolutely dragging, even 23 hours after getting home. Granted, a lot of that is in the style of how I hunted this year and how many miles I put on the boots each day, but I look back now and wonder where the time went to enjoy the hunt and the company I kept within our camp. Instead, I feel like it was go, go, go from the time I got to camp until the time I left, with no time to sit back, take a breath, and remember what it was all about. Way too much like what the real world is all about these days and exactly what you try to escape when hunting. That will not happen again.
I am sure there will be more and I will add on when I think of those things. My body and brain is still a little fried...
cohunter14
Administrator
- Jul 10, 2017
- 5,431
As did we Gary...not fun.
iccyman001
New member
- Apr 30, 2014
- 5,489
Don\'t forget your lessons learned.....
sorry derek, I just saw this 9 months later..... you know, good or bad, it was a fun emotional year. I had worried for awhile how I would react to an elk that close..... for as much as I was shaking through out the whole encounter, I still felt like I handled it well, heck, I still put myself in a position to get an arrow off!!!!!!! after several days on the mtn with several blown encounters, you have a tendency to second guess yourself.
