2016 Arrow Build Experiment

Derek, I have been remodeling my aunt\'s bathroom, so I haven\'t had much time to complete the build. The only portion completed right now are the rampages with the following: Firenock SS inserts, Firenock Aerovane 3, Firenock Nock A and 125gn field points. I\'ll work on the real heavy build after the remodel is complete. I plan to take the builds, along with different FP weights and my old arrow set up to the shop to get chrono speeds.

I\'ve only sent about 100 arrows out of my bow with the new cables/strings. I am also dialing in my new Versarest and new CBE 3rd axis 5 pin fixed with sliding pin. Need to get my form back, so just trying to get back in the swing of things. This was my last 20yd group I shot on Saturday, which was the best session - need to get that consistency to be repeatable.

 
Updates?! I built a new arrow this year that\'s sitting at 500 grains and I don\'t know if I like it....


I killed my two elk with 396 gr arrows. I think they were too light, but I think 500 is too high for my liking.
I may find a happy medium in the middle.
 
I would agree that 396 is on the light side, but obviously did the trick. I\'ve built a GT pro Hunter that weighs in at just around 443 grains that shoots like a laser out of my nitrum 34 and HTR. Plan on using them for deer and elk this year. I think a mid 400 grain arrow allows you to build an all around arrow with a decent FOC, but still packs a punch. The real trick with building a heavier arrow is getting the dynamic spine right for your particular setup. Most programs like OnTarget or archers advantage are simple to use.
 
Enjoyed the read. My arrow for this year is only 390 and I\'m not really satisfied with that weight. I\'ve always liked one around 440-450. I\'ve got time so I\'ll probably experiment a little more. Just bought some AAE Maxhunters. I\'m gonna do some arrows up with them after I take my WB off. I shoot too much for a WB and plan on going with a Versa Rest. I looked at those same vanes not long ago but couldn\'t figure out how to fletch them with my jig.
 
\"The Aerovane III will create 300 revolutions in 18 yards, where standard fletchings on the market today will produce 8-12 revolutions in that same distance (using the lab at the University). His product creates unparalleled angular momentum compared to other vanes, and has devastating affects on tissues during penetration. Some of his testors indicated that hearts were obliterated with the high angular momentum imparted on the arrow system. His system does not require the heavy arrow build and EFOC like the Ashby arrow, but rather it works best with speeds around 280 fps and higher. His testing on game animals revealed that many broadheads fail with this vane system, as they are not stout enough to withstand that rotational force when penetration occurs. In his and others testing, there were many fixed blade broadheads that had blades and ferrules fail when penetration occurred. Even worse results with all mechanical heads, as the thin blades would all fail. Some of the best BH\'s in his testing of the Aerovane III are the Slick Tricks, Ramcats and hartcraft with trophy 1 blade. The Aerovane III was designed to create very little noise as well.\"

I am concerned that if these vanes do in fact add that type of rotation that the amount of drag created by them could be significant. I am curious as to what your pin gaps look like as you stretch out the distance. I listen to John Dudley\'s Nock On podcast and to summarize his setups typically are optimal with offset vanes and even standard helical doesn\'t provide any better accuracy over his offset vanes but they do create more drag. I myself stick with helical, as I don\'t plan on shooting long distances at animals unless it is a follow up shot, but his findings are intriguing to me.
 
Some of the tests on these vanes show that the extra spin actually generates some lift. Unsure of the actual term, but pretty sure some of the tests on AT showed that they don\'t drop as much as distances increase. Also, they are fletched straight not offset or helical so there\'s less drag in that regard.

I have some I want to fletch some arrows with and try (I have his fletching jig too), but what\'s stopped me is the reports that they are more picky with broadheads - both in terms of damaging the broadhead on entry because of the spin, but also too much spin causing POI change dependent on broadhead design. Will need to see if I can go find some of those threads to link to.

Interested to see your results.
 
Welcome to the site Brendan! :welcome:

Interesting points you make. I never realized that helical caused more drag, but that does make sense if you think about it.
 
Thanks for the welcome. Been more of a here and there lurker, but saw this thread pop up and it was something I\'d researched myself. This now has me thinking about doing some experimenting again, but I probably have enough other things to keep me busy getting ready for September anyways!

Here\'s some testing information from the Firenock Site:

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Sorry, for the late response - almost finished with my aunt\'s bathroom remodel, so I should be able to start working on this project again.

Bowfreak, I think part of the hesitation of many to believe in Aerovane III, is that it is a much different concept than what we have seen for years with standard vane technology. I was one of them, that is why I gave him a call. There is no drag in his design, but the vanes must be installed with extreme precision (that is why I had him install them on mine). In reviewing Brendan\'s response ( welcome Brendan!), I also did some searching and found this video Dorge did on training on his vane technology. The video had many concepts I discussed with him on the phone, and is a very informative video.

I need to inform everyone that I must have heard Dorge wrong about the RPM of the Aerovane III, as the video below indicates in the first 20 yards the RPM is 120, not the 300 I indicated earlier. Sorry about that, but it is still an incredible amount, compared to Blazers that provide I think 5-8 revolutions in the first 20 Yds.

If anyone has time, I would highly recommend watching this video, as it talks about the physics, design, professors he commissioned to help him design his vanes, as well as lift, vane deformation, cross wind signature, drag, owl wing incorporation and many other concepts are discussed with not only his product, but existing products like blazers and quick spins.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjJzEcyZuC0&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
 
Brendan, Firenock recommends the following broadheads for use with Aerovane III: slick trick 100 & 125 gn; smoke: ram cat SBG1\" and Hartcraft with Trophy 1 blade.
 
Roman, wanted to check back and see how this testing came along for you. Did you ever settle on a particular setup?
 
Derek, I ended up with the Firenock components (nock, outsert and Aerovane III\'s), the Black Eagle Rampage 250 0.001 straitness, along with a 125gr Slick Trick broadhead. Final total weight was 506gr and chrono speed was 274fps. I only took one animal this year - my Colorado Mountain Goat. Only one sample, but the set up performed very well for me. My practice rounds at 60yds were averaging 5-6\" diameter grouping of 5 arrows. Photos below show how the arrow/broadhead performed on the goat:

Total pass through at 25 yards:


Left Side Entry:


Inside of Left side Entry:


Right side pass through shoulder blade:


Arrow ended up in pine tree behind the goat:
 
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