Best grunt tube?

[JohnFitzgerald]

I like the smaller intakes because it\'s harder to get back pressure with the larger ones.

John what are you using to measure back pressure on the smaller to bigger tubes ? You really have me curious ! Also how do you know if there is any back pressure ? What does back pressure do if anything ? I know for a fact that a properly made reed does all the note changes so back pressure has nothing to do with note changes or as some call it (Breaking over a reed).

Can you please clear this all up for all of us wondering ?

Thanks

Trav

How do you measure your reeds over your competitors? Quality of sounds you produce and how easy you can produce them. Same with back pressure of a grunt tube.

Cover the exhaust port of your tub. Now blow into the intake port. The force you feel is back pressure.

If you need further explanation, here\'s a definition from a major call manufacturer.

Backpressure is a built in resistance in a call?s airflow. Backpressure affects the call?s sound when air is put into a call with minimal effort. It helps control a call much easier, while trying to make several different sounds. However, if you try and put too much air too fast into one of these calls, the call will break or squeak relatively easy. A call with little to no backpressure has to be driven all the way, but you will be able to push this call faster and harder, while calling.


Hope this helps Travis.

 

[flystrait]

I forgot to add that back pressure does make a difference in \"EVERY\" manufactures call that I have tested and or used and I have used everyone that\'s available to this point. That\'s not a bad thing just the reality of it, hence the type of tube I use enhances every diagram/reed. I would say that is a good thing as many others are not getting the potential out of their calls.

CK

 

[Glacier Country]

I like the smaller intakes because it\'s harder to get back pressure with the larger ones.

John what are you using to measure back pressure on the smaller to bigger tubes ? You really have me curious ! Also how do you know if there is any back pressure ? What does back pressure do if anything ? I know for a fact that a properly made reed does all the note changes so back pressure has nothing to do with note changes or as some call it (Breaking over a reed).

Can you please clear this all up for all of us wondering ?

Thanks

Trav

John if you don\'t mind ,maybe I will Also answer Wapitti, with a quote from Corey Jacobson!!! Corey did a Bugle Tube Comparison a few years ago. Lets look at bugle tube criteria number 4. Overall Design ...... and I quote...

\" 4. Overall Design ? Does the tube create the correct amount of BACK-PRESSURE to maximize the quality of the diaphragm?\" End Quote.

So from this I would surmise that a multiple time RMEF World Champion Elk caller ,Corey Jacobson, believes that SOME bugle tubes Can and Do create back pressure, which in turn can maximize the quality of sound the diaphragm can make. He might know a thing or two about it!

Here are Corey\'s Bugle tube criteria...
\" Grunt tubes are designed to amplify the sound of your bugle to be able to reach greater distances, as well as add authenticity to your calls. Your style of hunting may have an influence on the style of bugle tube you use. For instance, if you are bivy hunting several miles from the nearest roads, you may want a smaller, more ?packable? style grunt tube. If you are going for the most authentic elk sound you can create, one design might be better than another. To keep things consistent, we?ll be looking at the ?main-stream? grunt tubes from some of the top elk call manufacturers and basing the results upon the following criteria:
1. Quality of Sound ? Does the bugle sound like an elk? Does it sound like an elk bugling in a culvert?
2. Volume ? The purpose of a grunt tube is to amplify your sounds?how well does the tube perform?
3. Size ? Do I need a pack frame to haul the tube up the mountain?
4. Overall Design ? Does the tube create the correct amount of back-pressure to maximize the quality of the diaphragm?

Wapitti, To me your comments and post to John F came across as snide remarks. I don\'t mind saying that,I didn\'t like it.
You have also made derogatory comments on public forums about my calls as well, which makes me wonder if these remarks were actually directed toward me??? Considering the entire thread and the fact that John is using my bugle tube... I would agree that A PROPERLY MADE DIAPHRAGM CALL does makes a huge difference in what tone changes that call is capable of. Just as a bugle tube that creates a good amount of back pressure will help make it easier, to break from one tone to another. They work better in combination.
I posted pictures of guys using the tubes that I make,The calls that I make and their success photos, because I think that a picture can be worth a thousand words.Do I think they can make a difference in their success.YES I Do!!!
If you notice not once have I said anything bad about your calls.

I Do know how to create a tube with back pressure and It does make it a little easier to blow a call. It helps make it break the diaphragm over from one tone to the next. For my style of hunting the calls and the Bugle tube that I use are MORE IMPORTANT THAN the bow that I shoot or the binoculars that I use!!! Guys spend boat loads of money on Bows, Arrows , Camo, packs, etc,etc. For my Style of hunting though (Run and Gun) my Bugle Tube and my calls are More important. Most of the elk we take are not talking on their own, when I locate them. For that I need a bugle tube and calls. I\'m not saying this style of hunting is for everybody, but it works for me and is eye opening for some of the guys I have helped learn how to call.

Troy

 

[Guest]

Very interesting Topic going here and I still have not heard the answer to the first question and most important one...How do you measure back pressure ? Is there a gauge or something else that can be attached to a tube and then be blown through ?

When is a tube just a tube ? Back in the day we all just used a vacuum hose and we still called in a lot of bulls. Heck one day I even forgot my bugle tube so I cut off a water bottle that was in the back of my truck and used that. It even worked we called in a nice 5 point that day and we sure had some laughs !!

I\'m Not sure how Troy thinks I was putting in a snide remark as I was simply asking a question. Thanks to Troy for the Corey blurb. But if you\'ll notice what Corey uses at calling contest\'s are two Fat Bats. The one is cut wide open and the other has an \"X\" cut into the exhaust end. Also Audrey uses a orange fat bat with the whole entire end cut off so she has max volume I would guess. So if you ask me I believe back pressure has very little to do with anything as they are both great callers.

I believe a Bugle tube is basically a amplifier. Oh sure you can bugle on a reed without a tube and we all have done it at some time or another. But when bugling for elk you want your sound going to the direction you think the elk are at and the tube gives your sounds a deeper more guttural sound of a real elk.

I also in fact do like the look of your tube Troy as it looks just like MY fat bat that I use. To me they sound great. They are a bit big and awkward to carry but I believe there are worth there weight in gold !! Also in all fairness I have never said anything bad about your reeds but I can recall many times after I have posted....... Your little helper (Fly) has gone right away to the post and tried to steer it in your direction. Which in all honesty I could really care less as you guys have your customers and I have mine. It actually makes me laugh every time. I also work WITH every other call manufacturer out there except for you guys as for some reason you guys have been bashing me right from the start.

Travis

 

[flystrait]

Travis I did not think you noticed LOL and it was a fair statement. You won\'t see that from me moving forward.

I just want to let you know I have no affiliation with Troy\'s company or call development I do like the reeds he builds as well as Phelp\'s. I do and will continue to support any product or company I believe in. In all fairness to your company and products that I have tried there is a place for customers looking for different things and some of your reeds work well for more of the entry level caller in my opinion with the soft stretch and latex type\'s, I believe I tried 5-6 different ones. I\'m not trying to bash what you are trying to accomplish or your products. My style lends me to higher stretch and thicker latex to maximize the bull sounds that I look for. Some people take constructive criticism well and view it as feedback then take that back to their products and or services and try to improve them. I know I certainly try to with my own company.

Back to the original question of back pressure, yes there is a device that can be used to measure the amount of pressure in the tube chamber vs atmospheric or the normal air pressure around us, which in turn will give the delta between the two. I don\'t believe a tube is just a tube sure can anything work absolutely, but I do know that different tubes have different sounds some better than others. JMO

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Like Flystraight I too like tightly stretched latex reeds.

It takes a certain amount of air pressure over a reed to \"break\" it loose. This pressure is the same type of atmospheric pressure one feels in their ears as they climb or descend on an airplane. And this is true for any type of call, internal or external. Tighter stretched mouth reeds do require higher pressure to reach that break point. But it\'s also easier for the caller to reach that high pitched magical elk note. When the caller uses a grunt tube, back pressure builds in the sound chamber and goes back into the callers mouth. This maintains higher pressure in the mouth which in return allows the caller to use less exhaling pressure.

So, with a bugle tube there\'s three factors that make it good. Back pressure, chamber for sound amplification, and resonance tuning(ie sounding like a plastic hollow tube).

My 2-cents!

 

[Guest]

HEHEHE !! LMAO yes I did notice Craig and I have been biting my tongue for the better part of 2 years now !! I believe it all started when you tricked me into sending you one of my PACK bugle tubes and then put it up against Fat Bat competition style tubes. All the while knowing a pack tube is not designed for that purpose !! They are made for the bivy style hunter and those who pack in long distances.

So I got an idea. I purpose a bugling challenge with Craig, John, Troy and Travis at The World Elk Calling Championships !! Of course all of us will be in the Pro division as that is the only one that Troy and myself can enter. But that will not matter as we will all compare our scores at the end and see who wins at the end !

You can use whatever calls and tubes you guys like and I\'ll use my small PACK bugle tube and my fat bat !! You can use all the tight reeds you want and I\'ll use my \" Entry Level Reeds \" as Craig puts it !!

The LOSER at the end pay\'s for all the food and beverages for the rest at supper that night ?

Sound good to you guys ??

Who else on the forums wants to see this happen ?? Let\'s hear everyone\'s opinions.

Trav

 

[Swede]

Let\'s hear everyone\'s opinions.

I read with interest the differing points in this debate. I think a good debate is helpful, but a contest like this would likely prove only who is the best caller for a given day. Lets constrain ourselves to the subject of what is the best grunt tube, and leave out any personal antagonism.

Thanks.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

HEHEHE !! LMAO yes I did notice Craig and I have been biting my tongue for the better part of 2 years now !! I believe it all started when you tricked me into sending you one of my PACK bugle tubes and then put it up against Fat Bat competition style tubes. All the while knowing a pack tube is not designed for that purpose !! They are made for the bivy style hunter and those who pack in long distances.

So I got an idea. I purpose a bugling challenge with Craig, John, Troy and Travis at The World Elk Calling Championships !! Of course all of us will be in the Pro division as that is the only one that Troy and myself can enter. But that will not matter as we will all compare our scores at the end and see who wins at the end !

You can use whatever calls and tubes you guys like and I\'ll use my small PACK bugle tube and my fat bat !! You can use all the tight reeds you want and I\'ll use my \" Entry Level Reeds \" as Craig puts it !!

The LOSER at the end pay\'s for all the food and beverages for the rest at supper that night ?

Sound good to you guys ??

Who else on the forums wants to see this happen ?? Let\'s hear everyone\'s opinions.

Trav

Wow, not sure how I got pulled into the World Elk Calling Championship! Hey, if someone wants to pay my way down.....I\'m game. I can go on stage with a paper bag over my head, kinda like the Unkown Comic did. Anyone remember the Gong Show! If you do......your old like me. :lol:

I know how Troy and his family rank in calling contests. I would be buying Troy beverages and supper that night.

We can all agree that everyone has their own opinion and we don\'t need a contest to show that. If we did, the next thing you know well be having a contest out on the range to see who\'s bow shoots better. :crazy:

 

[iccyman001]

I have a better contest..



I take each one of you on a hunt.

Whoever calls me in the biggest bull, wins :upthumb:

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

I have a better contest..



I take each one of you on a hunt.

Whoever calls me in the biggest bull, wins :upthumb:

ROFLOL!!!!!

When you coming to Oregon? I can call one in for you after I get Swede his. :dance2:

 

[Guest]

LOL win win for ICCY !! Very sneaky but I like it !! LOL :thewave:

 

[Guest]

Swede I\'m not to sure there is one best tube as we all like different things. So I\'m not sure there will ever be a winner. Kind of like what came first the chicken or the egg ! LOL

I have NO idea !!