Bugle - What does it mean?

[JohnFitzgerald]

Troy from Glacier Country and I have had this talk many times. What does a bugle mean? Is it to attract cows or a warning for other bulls to stay away? Does it serve a dual purpose. Elk calling can\'t be as complex as others make it.

Sound A is for when he\'s talking to bulls. But when you add sound B to the end it\'s for cows. Then when you inject sound C with A and B it\'s for the bulls again. Really?????? Why would a language be so complex? Or are we making it more complicated than it really is.

 

[Swede]

I agree John, but it goes farther than that. By telling hunters how complex everything is, they feel inadequate and, people are able to market books and I Phone apps to be studied in the field when they hear a bugle.
What does that bugle mean and what should I do? Is that in page 30, or was it in chapter 4? I better check my I Phone. Really? Maybe all you really need to do is get in close and entice the bull with a cow call, or challenge him with a challenge bugle. Maybe just get close and start with a cow call and then challenge him when he tries to call you in. I believe we do best when we keep it simple and learn to do basic calls well. As you sometimes say, \" just my 2 cents\".

 

[WW]

If you really want to know the answer, just ask Elknut and T.R. Michales. They are the self proclaimed experts on elk language. :mg: My dog has a language also. He barks, whines, growls, and wags his tail. But it isn\'t so much as what he says that counts as it is the emotion he puts into it.

 

[Swede]

it is the emotion he puts into it

Great point WW. That part of your line cracked me up. How many times have we read or heard that?

 

[cnelk]

I love hearing bugles and I like hearing chuckles.
What does that mean to me?

It means there is at least one bull in the vicinity and I better nock an arrow and go check it out! : :mrgreen:

You mention emotion?
You bet I have emotion when I hear bugles!!!!

 

[cohunter14]

Elk calling can\'t be as complex as others make it.

On the contrary, I think it is way too complex to ever figure out. How will you ever know if a bugle means \'I\'m horney\' or if it means \'I\'m looking for a fight\'. I guarantee you even someone who is believed to be an expert in this would still have times where they would mess up.

Best method for figuring it out? The KISS method would be my opinion, although I am an expert at speaking to animals so I choose another method

 

[mainebrdr]

Hearing a bugle? It means I finally got hearing aids!

 

[Swede]

Based on a couple of interesting threads, I can see the long winter has finally set in. Can you Colorado hunters still get out of the house? I think of calling elk the same as ordering a dinner at a Mexican restaurant. Just how much Spanish do I need to know to get a plate of tacos or a burrito?

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Lol, now that\'s funny Swede!

So a question for the callers out there, forgetting about emotions and other complimentary sounds, can we agree that a bugle is a bugle? Every one has the basic meaning of the bull is trying to drawing attention to himself? If not, then keep it simple and tell me what a bugle means? Those that don\'t have a lot of experience calling, we need your thought as we\'ll!

Swede - you can comment as long as you don\'t mention food! :wave:

 

[cnelk]

Time of day tends to determine what a bull is saying.
Late afternoon when you hear a bugle, you know a bull is bugling from his bed.
Probably not emotion in those bugles.
More like a a big yawn...

 

[Deertick]

It means there is at least one bull in the vicinity and I better nock an arrow and go check it out! : :mrgreen:

Me, too. Keep it simple ...

As Cohunter said, I think elk language can be -- and is -- very complex. As WW said, I think it is a very emotional language.

One thing is for sure, he\'s not doing math. He might have a complex language, but he doesn\'t have complex things to say.

A bull\'s vocalizations are about HIM, what HE wants, what HE desires. He\'s not debating with another bull, he\'s telling him to \"get the #^*%$ out of here!\" ... he\'s not asking a cow if she likes the pretty high country flowers, he\'s telling her that he\'s going to rape her if she doesn\'t do what he wants.

Like WW said, listen to your dog. I can tell you that I know each of my dogs\' different barks, whines, and so on. I live with them, after all. They have a complicated language -- but they don\'t have complicated thoughts. It comes down to telling me how they feel ... hungry, grumpy, angry, on alert, etc. They\'re not asking me what I think about how Obamacare.

Cnelk and Cory Jacobsen have it right ... a bugle means a bull to chase. Period. Don\'t worry about it otherwise.

Now -- when you as a hunter bugle, I think you have to choose to \"contact bugle\" or \"challenge bugle\" ... \"Woof\" or \"Bark!\" for you dog owners.

 

[elkmtngear]

My dog has a language also. He barks, whines, growls, and wags his tail. But it isn\'t so much as what he says that counts as it is the emotion he puts into it.

Bill, using your analogy, maybe the following image can help clear things up:

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

It means there is at least one bull in the vicinity and I better nock an arrow and go check it out! : :mrgreen:

Me, too. Keep it simple ...

As Cohunter said, I think elk language can be -- and is -- very complex. As WW said, I think it is a very emotional language.

One thing is for sure, he\'s not doing math. He might have a complex language, but he doesn\'t have complex things to say.

A bull\'s vocalizations are about HIM, what HE wants, what HE desires. He\'s not debating with another bull, he\'s telling him to \"get the #^*%$ out of here!\" ... he\'s not asking a cow if she likes the pretty high country flowers, he\'s telling her that he\'s going to rape her if she doesn\'t do what he wants.

Like WW said, listen to your dog. I can tell you that I know each of my dogs\' different barks, whines, and so on. I live with them, after all. They have a complicated language -- but they don\'t have complicated thoughts. It comes down to telling me how they feel ... hungry, grumpy, angry, on alert, etc. They\'re not asking me what I think about how Obamacare.

Cnelk and Cory Jacobsen have it right ... a bugle means a bull to chase. Period. Don\'t worry about it otherwise.

Now -- when you as a hunter bugle, I think you have to choose to \"contact bugle\" or \"challenge bugle\" ... \"Woof\" or \"Bark!\" for you dog owners.

Sorry, with all do respect, I completely disagree. If the elk language is complicated, then we must assume that other elk can understand the complication. In the wild, inches and seconds can mean the difference between life and death. A complicated language will only lead to confusion.

I also disagree with the thought that a bugle means to knock an arrow and go check it out. Sure, that makes sense if your not a caller. But what if your hunting my country? Timber so thick you are heard long before be being seen or smelled. How many times have we heard about the bull running off with his cows. The elk language is simple, but should the tactic be too?

Jeff\'s post is funny, but it has a lot of truth in it.

 

[Swede]

I agree with what has been said about keeping things reasonably simple. I agree that elk have a language. I appreciate the books and videos that are available to help give us a elk decoder. I have read and viewed then numerous times. I started with Larry D. Jones many years ago and have studied all of Elknut\'s materials. These tools can be very educational. The problem I see happens when we get overwhelmed with all of the different sounds and situations that can occur at different points in a season.
Troy of Glacier Country Hunting Calls, Corey Jacobson and others have offered simple useful ways to call elk. Learn these calls and a few simple cold calling sounds and go hunting. Just like I don\'t carry a Spanish language book to the restaurant when I want a taco, I don\'t need a Playbook or I Phone app. with me when I am hunting.

Just don\'t forget your tree stand book. :lol:

 

[WW]

My dog has a language also. He barks, whines, growls, and wags his tail. But it isn\'t so much as what he says that counts as it is the emotion he puts into it.

Bill, using your analogy, maybe the following image can help clear things up:

Jeff: Please don\'t let Elknut see your cartoon. He\'ll probably try to sell that devise in his online store and then add another chapter in his book on how to use it. :wtf:

 

[Deertick]

Well, by \"complex\" I mean that there are many vocalizations, and many patterns of vocalizations.

But ... I also said that I don\'t think WHAT they are saying is complex ... simple minds, simple thoughts.

Put another way, my dog has lots of whines, lots of barks, and lots of combinations ... that is complex ... but she doesn\'t have lots of different thoughts to express -- the variation refers to intensity, emotion, urgency, inquisitiveness ... but the thoughts themselves are simple.

Think of it as diagramming a sentence (for those who have graduated Jr. High :lol: ) ... The main part of the sentence might be \"Jack ran\" but there are tons of modifiers to put on that that explains intensity, emotion, urgency, etc. The range of adjective an elk has are less limited than some might think, but the basic \"sentences\" they have to say ... pretty limited.

As for \"nock an arrow\" ... I took that to mean Cnelk saying that if you hear a bugle, you\'ve heard an elk -- hunt it ... not that if you hear a bugle there is a particular WAY that elk HAS to be hunted.

And I agree with him ... a elk making a bugle implies that the elk exists, and if you are elk hunting, that would suggest that there is an elk to hunt.

 

[F M]

OK I have to ask this. I hear about complex and different vocals meanings. There has been a bull on a private ranch where we hunt for two years now that has never bugled once while we are there. We are in camp for two weeks at a time. Have watched him by himself, with other bulls and with cows and he has never bugled once. All he ever does is chuckle his fool head off. It did not matter if he had cows and was chasing a rag off he would chuckle. With all the different meanings a bugle can have could he be using his chuckles the same way others use a bugle? Maybe he can\'t bugle?

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Tick - great points! I think we are on the same page.

FM - a bugle for me means the exact same as the next bugle. My definition is that it\'s a bulls attempting to draw attention to him. That\'s it, nothing complicated about it. But intensity and accompanying sounds are what really defines the true meaning. I too have heard bulls only chuckle. And I feel chuckles are the bulls attempt to prove he is the dominant bull to cows he already has or cows he hopes to gain. So I\'ve taken detailed notes during these encounters. Usually, but not always, bulls chuckle only when there is a lot of satellite bulls nearby. So when a bull chuckles, he is just reassuring that he is the dominate bull without drawing distant attention to himself. Not that they can\'t bugle, maybe just they don\'t want the extra hassle.

My 2-cent and worth nothing more

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Of course I want to hear from everyone about this. But here\'s a few names that I\'m calling out. Please give your input.

Jeff - You\'ve talked about elk being lovers and not fighters. Do those same bulls bugle?

iccyman001 - You encounters a lot of action in a short amount of time this year. Were the bulls more advertising or warning with there bugles?


jf

 

[BTL]

Tick - great points! I think we are on the same page.

But intensity and accompanying sounds are what really defines the true meaning. I too have heard bulls only chuckle. And I feel chuckles are the bulls attempt to prove he is the dominant bull to cows he already has or cows he hopes to gain. So I\'ve taken detailed notes during these encounters. Usually, but not always, bulls chuckle only when there is a lot of satellite bulls nearby. So when a bull chuckles, he is just reassuring that he is the dominate bull without drawing distant attention to himself.

John, is this where you would say chuckles and grunts are the same thing, just a difference in intensity with close encounters of two competing bulls?
I want to say Ive read where you have said that.