Bugling question

[iccyman001]

Does the amount you project your bugle matter when calling to bulls or calling in bulls.

If that is confusing let me explain.


John posted a video a few days ago where a bull was bulging.
Well at some point he let out this short and tiny bugle.

The way John explained it to me was:
\"If your friend was across a field, you would yell his name. If he was in the same room, you wouldn\'t speak as loud.\"

So do you do the same with elk.
Let\'s say you have an elk 500 yards out and you bugle.
You\'re probably going to be more loud.

Well let\'s say you hear him calling and he is slowly making his way in. Are you making your calls softer or quieter?


Is this a tactic? Does screaming at them when they are only 100 yards away get them mad?



I have a second part to this question.
Do bulls get mad if you interrupt them or cut them off?


I\'m looking forward to your responses.


Thank you.

 

[elkmtngear]

Unless I\'m just trying to locate...I\'m not bugling out past 100 yds, That\'s just me.

I feel that answering a distant bull just gives my position away to both the bull and other hunters. I do not want either one to know where I am until I am within striking distance.

As far as volume, if I\'m answering a bull (especially in a challenge scenario)...I\'m giving him whatever he gives me right back. Mocking him. And yes, I will cut him off to try to get him agitated...this has worked in past years.

 

[WW]

I\'ve had bulls within 10 feet of me that bugled as hard as they could and blew snot and slobbers all over me. I think most guys try to read too much into what they think a bull is saying. They all sound different and make a bunch of different sounds. The main thing they are telling you is where they are regardless of the sound they make or how loud or soft it is. And as a human, even your best bugle won\'t compare to that of a real bull on the Db scale.

 

[Jaquomo]

I concur with both Jeff and Bill. As far as volume, whenever I voice bugle I often get bulls right in my lap. I\'ve attributed that to the lower volume making b them think I\'m further away than I really am.

Then again, that theory may be all wet, as with a lot of my theories...

 

[Swede]

The volume I give is related to what I am trying to accomplish. If I am trying to bring in a curious bull, I will sound like a small, low volume, lonesome bull. For various reasons I may go loud. As said above, give back what they are doing. I don\'t think we need to worry about loudness on cold calling sequences, but I start small and increase volume to reach farther out.

 

[iccyman001]

The volume I give is related to what I am trying to accomplish. If I am trying to bring in a curious bull, I will sound like a small, low volume, lonesome bull. For various reasons I may go loud. As said above, give back what they are doing. I don\'t think we need to worry about loudness on cold calling sequences, but I start small and increase volume to reach farther out.

Swede, if you are doing a cold call sequence, do you do just cow talk or do you throw in a bugle as well?

I concur with both Jeff and Bill. As far as volume, whenever I voice bugle I often get bulls right in my lap. I\'ve attributed that to the lower volume making b them think I\'m further away than I really am.

Then again, that theory may be all wet, as with a lot of my theories...

I\'m sure I\'ll get laughed at for asking, but..... \"voice bugle\"? You make your own bugles without calls? That is cool!
I can get what you would be trying to accomplish though making it seem further away than you really are.
That way they aren\'t exactly locked onto your location when they are coming in.

I\'ve had bulls within 10 feet of me that bugled as hard as they could and blew snot and slobbers all over me. I think most guys try to read too much into what they think a bull is saying. They all sound different and make a bunch of different sounds. The main thing they are telling you is where they are regardless of the sound they make or how loud or soft it is. And as a human, even your best bugle won\'t compare to that of a real bull on the Db scale.

I\'m tracking completely Bill. Thank you for the post!
Do you cut bulls off or is that not really needed in your opinion?

Unless I\'m just trying to locate...I\'m not bugling out past 100 yds, That\'s just me.

I feel that answering a distant bull just gives my position away to both the bull and other hunters. I do not want either one to know where I am until I am within striking distance.

As far as volume, if I\'m answering a bull (especially in a challenge scenario)...I\'m giving him whatever he gives me right back. Mocking him. And yes, I will cut him off to try to get him agitated...this has worked in past years.

Thanks Jeff! When you do your hundred yard rules, is that after you\'ve located one?

Lets say you walk into a piece of land. You are not just waiting for one to sound off are you? Or are you kicking out a bugle to get them talking, then only dealing with ones 100 yards or less?




Thank you everyone

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Actually Dan, I think I made reference to the length of the bugle not how loud the bugle was. Many professionals, like Joel Turner, talk about how the short, high pitched bugle really gets the herd bulls fired up when the hunter is up close and personal. It\'s a proven fact that the longer the audio, the easier it is to pick out the geographical location of the source. So like Jaquomo, I too have a theory. When you\'re close in on a herd bull and you give short bugles, you are essentially demonstrating that your attempts are local and not long distance locating. And local attempt to display your geographical location would, to me, be a slap in the herd bulls face.

Volume is so irrelevant in the woods. One spot might give you great reception while 50 yards away you can hardly hear anything.

I really like Jaquomo\'s theory on soft calling. Some of my cold call sequences involves \"whispering\" with calls. Maybe he\'s on to something with regards to the elk believing your farther away then you really are.

I also +1 on Jeff\'s philosophy of Contact, then move in close before you bugle again. Big Dan Moore talks about finding the herd bull. He\'s always the one sneaking out the back door. So you want to make sure you\'re close before you pose a threat.

As far as cutting a bull bugle off with your own? When bull is trying to announce his geographical location and you come in over the top of him announcing yours, how much of a slap in the face do you think that is?

Understanding what certain sounds mean does not imply you\'re reading too much into the elk language. You must understand why certain sounds work in certain situations and to do so you need to understand the basics of the language. Then you need to listen to the situational experts like Big Dan Moore and Joel Turner and implement your own experience into your understanding and tactics.

My 2-cents.

Jf

 

[iccyman001]

Sorry that I misunderstood JF!

I\'ll have to do some research on this short and long video thing.


It\'s really tough for me to watch all of those seminar videos and stuff. They could be world class callers, but thats the thing, what works for them may not work for me.

I ask you guys because you give me your fair and honest opinions, but I am honestly not going to make my own choices until I get more woods experience.

You, Bill, Lou, Jeff are all seasoned elk hunters and all have your own, successful methods.

In 10 years, I will have my own too!



I look forward to all of the practice I get
One nice thing about this year is not only do I have myself to worry about, but I have a few other friends who I want to help get their first elk.
That means more woods time for me AKA more experience time.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Sorry that I misunderstood JF!

I\'ll have to do some research on this short and long video thing.


It\'s really tough for me to watch all of those seminar videos and stuff. They could be world class callers, but thats the thing, what works for them may not work for me.

I ask you guys because you give me your fair and honest opinions, but I am honestly not going to make my own choices until I get more woods experience.

You, Bill, Lou, Jeff are all seasoned elk hunters and all have your own, successful methods.

In 10 years, I will have my own too!



I look forward to all of the practice I get
One nice thing about this year is not only do I have myself to worry about, but I have a few other friends who I want to help get their first elk.
That means more woods time for me AKA more experience time.

I wouldn\'t consider Big Dan or Joel Turner world champion callers. Well actually, I think Turner might be. :crazy: Removed from commercialization, I think both are patched elk killers. And so is Corey Jacobson. I didn\'t mean to imply that you should only listen to them though. Every elk hunter who picks up a call has some advice or thought to give. I like hearing newbie encounters and their thoughts on what happened. Listen to the BTO family talk but don\'t ignore the big hitters.

 

[Old School]

May be a dumb question but I\'ll ask anyway. How easy is it to confuse an elk bugling with another hunter bugling? Are there any tell tale signs that its another hunter vs an actual elk? Or is it just something that \"you\'ll know the difference when you hear it\" that only comes from experience - which I currently lack. Just wondering how you keep from wasting time stalking a hunter who is repeatedly bugling.

--Mitch

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

May be a dumb question but I\'ll ask anyway. How easy is it to confuse an elk bugling with another hunter bugling? Are there any tell tale signs that its another hunter vs an actual elk? Or is it just something that \"you\'ll know the difference when you hear it\" that only comes from experience - which I currently lack. Just wondering how you keep from wasting time stalking a hunter who is repeatedly bugling.

--Mitch

The only dumb question in life is the question not asked!

It can be tough at times. Depends on how far apart you are and how good the caller is. I\'ve called in plenty of hunters but I too have been fooled on occasion.

Some tips:
1) If you get a response after dark or before light, its usually a bull.
2) If the caller matches bugle for bugle, usually a hunter. On rare occasion, I\'ve had bulls do this so it should never be a deal breaker unless you\'re 100% sure.
3) Primos bugles have a very distinct sound.
4) Know hunting patterns for your area and know which access routes are mostly used by hunters.
5) Hearing real bulls bugle in the woods, year after year, usually gives you the ability to distinguish.
6) It not uncommon for me to Contact Bugle and get several different responses. The last one, weak squeally bugle, usually means there\'s another hunter around.

Just my 2-cents!

 

[elkmtngear]

May be a dumb question but I\'ll ask anyway. How easy is it to confuse an elk bugling with another hunter bugling? Are there any tell tale signs that its another hunter vs an actual elk? Or is it just something that \"you\'ll know the difference when you hear it\" that only comes from experience - which I currently lack. Just wondering how you keep from wasting time stalking a hunter who is repeatedly bugling.

--Mitch

Mitch, I\'ve been fooled on both ends by this, I\'ve heard a live bull that I swore was a hunter with a Power Bugle, and I\'ve heard (a few) hunters that sounded so good they sucked me in.

Once, a partner and I started moving in on a bull that was raking, growling, seriously annoyed. He seemed to advance toward us as often as we advanced toward him (we were working into a crosswind).

Finally, we saw the other guys. They were just as fooled by us as we were by them :lol:

We gave eachother waves and sheepish grins, and went our separate ways.

 

[cnelk]

Mitch
A couple years ago Pikemaster and I heard a few bugles so we snuck in on the sound to check it out.
It turned out to be a couple hunters so we backed out and bugles THEM in while trying to bring in a bull we spotted.
I gave them a tutorial once they came sneaking in as they came in UPWIND.

 

[Old School]

Thanks for the responses to my question. So on a typical morning would you ideally head up high on a ridge long before light and give some contact bugles down into canyons/draws and wait for a response, then make your way downhill - crosswind of the bugle since the thermals would be carrying your scent downhill. Close in and then make contact with the elk once you were close in??

--Mitch

 

[elkmtngear]

Thanks for the responses to my question. So on a typical morning would you ideally head up high on a ridge long before light and give some contact bugles down into canyons/draws and wait for a response, then make your way downhill - crosswind of the bugle since the thermals would be carrying your scent downhill. Close in and then make contact with the elk once you were close in??

--Mitch

Mitch,

It\'s a good way to start. Depending on pressure, full moon, weather...the bulls may already be heading up to bed at first light, and they may only bugle once or twice when moving up. Knowing the area and the movement patterns of elk in a particular area will help you know where to be when.

The only way to find this out is a lot of sweat and boot leather. Getting up EARLY makes a lot of difference when you are working this out.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Thanks for the responses to my question. So on a typical morning would you ideally head up high on a ridge long before light and give some contact bugles down into canyons/draws and wait for a response, then make your way downhill - crosswind of the bugle since the thermals would be carrying your scent downhill. Close in and then make contact with the elk once you were close in??

--Mitch

Also, if you don\'t know the area and the thermals, it doesn\'t hurt to sit on a morning and just contact bugle the bull to his bed. I always bring a small note pad so I can write down what I see and find. Note mother nature, how aggressive the bull is, and also any satellites hanging around. You have this luxury in low pressure area\'s but I would jump on him right away if hunting a high pressured area.

Another good idea is to send a shooter in while you stay back and keep him busy with the bugle.

The thermals in my area are terrible and so unpredictable that I choose side hill if possible.

My 2-cents.
jf