Calling Scenarios

[JohnFitzgerald]

So for 30 Aug-12 Sep, no need to do my Troy impression. That\'s a shame I had a 3 hour drive to Fort Leonard Wood this week. I had his clip playing on repeat with my Orange Enrager. You know how when you\'re singin along with George Strait you think you sound just as good. That was me. My windshield and dash looked like an Angus bull had been driving my truck though, I spit all over my dash and windshield and had a sore throat by the time I got there.

Seriously though on the cold/silent method. Is there any chance I can call up something other than a rag or spike? Not trying to kill a monster just something with 5 points and I would really like to hear him bugle up close.

This method was what I was planning on when I wasn\'t hearing elk, my method I described was if I had one bugling. I know I have a lot to learn and experience is going to be the best teacher.

During any cold call setup, there\'s always a chance of calling in a bigger bull. But they are smarter than the young ones. So my advice is sell it. Ask yourself, does this sequence I\'m doing make sense. Also ask yourself, did I give this bull a reason to get up from his bed and come 100 yards too me?

I follow the 7 Golden Elk Calling Rules.

1) Elk are curious.
2) Elk are social and herd animals.
3) Bulls would rather you go to them.
4) All bulls have the instinct to rut.
5) Bulls will try to keep every cow.
6) Bulls will try gain any cow but not at the risk of loosing one of their own.
7) Herd bulls can be challenged for dominance, but only when you\'re within their comfort zone.

Late August and early September I usually stick to playing on 1-2. As it gets later into September I will add 3-7.

If I want a bull with a toady rack, I\'d get more aggressive and work my #2 and #3 cold calling sequence.

But once again, chances are they will come in silent. I\'ve gotten bulls to respond early in the season but they\'ve always been non-aggressive answer bugles in response to my location bugle.

My 2-cents!

 

[Glacier Country]

This video doesn\'t really depict a cold or Silent call setup.IMO It might have started out that way, but...If you have a bull responding to your calls like this one, Even if it is Sept 1st you can certainly do a Troy impression on this one. The Troy impression is to mimic them them to a T. I don\'t always bugle so big I would blow a house down. LOL I am very comfortable cow calling in the bull or the whole herd ... Whatever it takes! With this bull I would do a bark into a bugle just about like the real bull does in this video. Not too big. Then be Quiet as you will can hear the bull coming. Also notice that the real bull does a bark or \"nervous bark into a bugle\" Asking to see the hunter. If the hunter would have done that sound before his bugle. He would have asked the bull to come to him. and he probably would have, no cow calls needed. He just ended up sending the bull with cow calls where I might have sent him with a bugle.
What did the hunter do wrong .IMO
1) This guy bugles with a bugle tube that takes 2 hands to point . Hard to Direct traffic that way. ( he should have bugled in the direction he wanted the bull to go for the best shot opportunity(always keeping the wind in mind).In this case he bugles behind him and to the left. I\'m not sure how much cover is behind him, but it doesn\'t look like much. Because of the steep slope he gets away with it here.(The real bull will want to come in above the other bull(the hunter) Notice he does point the cow call the direction the bull eventually goes.
2) I don\'t really like his setup. He shot this bull too early , he should have waited for a more broadside shot. The tree to the right might have made him rush the shot. not the best setup. I like cover behind me. Sometimes you do have to make do with what you are given.
Just my thoughts.
Razor, you seem like a knowledgeable hunter and are asking a lot of the right questions.Who knows how many guys are actually learning from a thread like this?
Kudos to cnelk to post a video we can Explore and give each of our opinions on. We might skin the cat a different way but that doesn\'t mean it is necessarily wrong. --->Troy

 

[WW]

Some good observations there Troy. I\'d like to add just a couple of others.

1) IMO, the caller was answering the bulls bugles WAY to quickly. Personally, I never answer any faster or not very much faster than the bull responds to my call. The exception would be when challenging and things really get heated up. Then I would step right on him. But that didn\'t seem to be the case here in the video.

2) WAY too much movement by the hunter. And the movements he did make were too quick. Any movements should be slow and deliberate.

 

[WW]

Sorry my last post was so short and I didn\'t get much of a chance to elaborate. My wife was after me to get off the computer and get ready for church.

But anyhow, I\'d like to add that one of the things I look for to determine if it is a real elk talking or just a dang good caller is how fast one answers the other. Especially when the two are separated by any distance at all. A lot of hunters will answer too quickly. And no matter how good you sound, bulls just don\'t do that generally. Maybe once in awhile it will happen. But if you notice in the video, this guy was jumping on the bull every time he bugled. Usually I can tell a hunter from areal elk. But now days, a lot of guys are getting pretty dang good with their calling, So I have to use other things to tell the difference. And consistently answering too quickly is a dead give away. I have often wondered if a part time hunter can figure this out, maybe a full time elk can do the same!

Also, I mentioned movement without having much time to write about it. Did you notice how quickly he raised up, drew back, aimed, and released? He should have had all of these things done and been ready to release when the bull cleared the brush. All thru the video the guy was doing a lot of head and hand movement. He was camoed from head to toe. But come on, camo does not cover movement. Elk are very VERY capable of detecting movement.

Just a couple of things to think about! :think:

 

[elkmtngear]

Also, I mentioned movement without having much time to write about it. Did you notice how quickly he raised up, drew back, aimed, and released? He should have had all of these things done and been ready to release when the bull cleared the brush. All thru the video the guy was doing a lot of head and hand movement. He was camoed from head to toe. But come on, camo does not cover movement. Elk are very VERY capable of detecting movement.

Just a couple of things to think about! :think:

Bill makes a good point about movement. You will be AMAZED how a bull can sneak in on you when you are cold calling. And, if you\'re flipping back and forth between bite and blow calls...that movement will be easily detected if a bull has a lane on you through the timber.

As a side note, this encounter went badly. He was way too excited, rushed the shot, got poor penetration, and lost the bull (he posted it up on another forum). If he was still and calm...the bull was completely unaware of his position, and he could have had a good, clear broadside shot, at a much better angle.

I hope you get some good close encounters like this on your elk hunt, I have learned something from every one of them I\'ve had over the years.

 

[razorback]

I read you alls comments and watched this video many more times. I have pictured my set up having a large tree at my back. Is that how you guys normally do it? He did move a lot, much more than a gobbler will allow. Troy you talked about a bark going into the bugle, it took me a little bit to hear it. Is it when it sounds like he\'s going to chuckle but breaks into a bugle? I think I can make that sound, is that a productive sound early season?

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

I always try to have a tree in front so I can draw behind it. The idea is to balance concealment vs. shooting lanes. When calling, be concealed as much as possible but don\'t put yourself in a position where you can\'t shoot the bull.

Nervous bark is not a sound defined for early or late season, it can be used anytime. This sound is a nervous vocal expression by an elk. Has nothing to do with rut. When an elk makes this sound it\'s asking for a visual identification.

I use this sound when a bull hangs up on me or if I accidentally bump one. Take the definition of the nervous bark, doesn\'t make sense to use it during a cold call setup.

 

[Glacier Country]

I read you alls comments and watched this video many more times. I have pictured my set up having a large tree at my back. Is that how you guys normally do it? He did move a lot, much more than a gobbler will allow. Troy you talked about a bark going into the bugle, it took me a little bit to hear it. Is it when it sounds like he\'s going to chuckle but breaks into a bugle? I think I can make that sound, is that a productive sound early season?

Razor it is at 1:35 in this clip. This is not the classic nervous grunt into a bugle ,but I think this bull is still trying to convey the same message, based on this and the bugle before. He is asking the other elk to come to him. Or at least to let him see them. but because of the steep slope he wants to get above them so he moves toward them on about the same level. I guess the bull just kinda elongates the 2nd one almost into a small bugle, there. Is this a good sound to use ... If they are bugling pretty good I think it is . Although I like the classic bark into a bugle better. I am just asking them to come to me and in some cases depending on the Tone I use,Daring them to come in. It might not be a conventional tactic, but you also have to realize that I am not afraid to try something like that and have it not work out. I have learned a lot about elk hunting through failure. If I have a bull bugling back like the one in this clip. I would sure use it. In a cold calling setup conventional wisdom would say probably not use that sound. But I might try it just because nobody else does. I am just asking another elk to show themselves at my location. Heck that might just be the ticket? I am just thinking out loud here as I don\'t ever think I have tried that sound in a silent calling setup.

I also think that for the most part WW and I do a lot of things very similar.--->Troy