Chasing in the morning

[JohnFitzgerald]

So bear with me guys... It\'s a bad idea to challenge a bull if he\'s not bedded? Just wondering, I\'ve been reading about Dan Moore and trying to come up with something more aggressive this fall. I have no doubt being aggressive can pay off but there\'s got to be a time and place for it. Can you explain a little more about why the bull has to be bedded.

Herd bulls are most aggresive when bedded. You can challenge a herd bull anytime but you have better odds if the herd is not on the move.

My 2-cents!

 

[razorback]

So how do you guys know if it\'s a satellite or a herd bull. I heard a total of 3 different bulls last fall. There\'s no way I could have known what they were by their bugles. The most vocal bull did chuckle a few times, does that mean anything?

 

[flystrait]

John statement about being bedded is figuratively not literally what I mean is wait until the elk are settled cows will usually bed the bull will be up and down I usually wait about a hour after they have hit they bedding area. They don\'t want to leave at this point and the bull usually will confront an intruder as he does not have time to collect cows and push them out. The cows most of the time don\'t care if another bull is sitting there challenging the herd. This is why sounding as realistic as possible is one of the most important things to me.

For me to judge if there is a herd bull is by several things. Usually if they is a herd bull and others they all will answer a locate from distance usually one after another. If they are the move cut tracks and see if its more than one elk. Another feature I use is the tones in which they bugle for the most part mature bulls will have more mid tones in their bugle as the lessor bulls will have higher pitch and not as much gruff behind them. Usually when elk are on the move like this in the morning and there calling as they go there is a mature bull with them. Now all that being said challenge the herd bull, don\'t call for sattlites if you want to kill the herd bull. If your after any elk than there are ways to try to call satellites and cows then after that you can always try for the herd bull. Remember they are all different tactics of sounds to make to accomplish this.

 

[razorback]

So basically when the herd reaches their bedding area for the day, the herd bull draws a line in the sand?

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Usually chuckles don\'t prove herd or satellite bull.

Cutting tracks and knowing your area is one way to determine.

Bull characteristic like the bull moving away from you as he\'s bugling can indicate herd bull where as a bull that closes a short distance to you while bugling usually indicates satellite.

Knowing the commom bull sounds and what they mean can also be helpful. Example, later season if a bull responds to your contact bugle with his own contact bugle, chances are he\'s a satellite. Focus on the lack of accompanying sound and intensity of the bulls response.

Still unsure, get closer and work him with the soft cow sounds and assume he\'s a satellite until something tells you different.

There will be times when you just have to roll the dice and guess.

Just my 2-cents!

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

So basically when the herd reaches their bedding area for the day, the herd bull draws a line in the sand?

If the bull feels you are a threat to his dominance and has no other choice, he will draw the line. Easier to elicit this defense when the bull doesn\'t have time to think and his cows are not on the move.

 

[cnelk]

I have snuck up on many what I thought was a raghorn tooting off only to find out it was a spike

 

[VTHOKEE]

I don\'t have any good advice(still learning this thing they call elk hunting) but I am def watching this thread closely because I feel that I might be in this situation at some time in my new elk hunting career.

 

[flystrait]

Deertick,

Did not mean to turn your thread into a \"how to hunt and kill herd bulls\". The description you provided led my to believe it was a heard bull that you were after hense the tactics I use to kill that kind of bull.

 

[razorback]

Thanks guys, I learned something here. I\'ve read a lot of stuff on elk but never that a bull was more prone to being called after the herd bedded. That makes sense to me, of course I\'m sure they are a lot like turkeys and don\'t follow the rules :lol:

 

[Two Bear]

I think there is a lot to be said for not calling at all. If I hear a hot bull, and I an behind the herd, I just try to stay with them. To me, that first bugle in the morning is just the first pitch of the first inning. Very common for me to hear a bugle first light, and not get positioned for a shot until the afternoon. I think truly working a herd bull is a different game, its a marathon and not a sprint. If he is going to bugle his head off, and he will when the estrus hits the ground, it is sneak attack for me. Its all about patience and positioning at that point. It may take me hours to pull out and swing around after he is bedded, but I will do it for the wind always. Once he beds for a few hours, his disposition changes with each passing minute, I let him rest and get ornery. Gives me enough time to plan out a solid attack. One thing about calling, you can be for sure once you make that call you have given away your position, no matter what the bull thinks you are. There are times when hiding your position is invaluable.

 

[Scot320]

Good stuff Alan...thanks

 

[Glacier Country]

I guess I do things a little different than some of you, but I have taken most of my bulls before 9 am. If I thought the wind would allow it I would try to bugle in this bull.You are on a mature bull and within 70 yards. I am not afraid to pull the reins back but being that close I might have to try to call him in.
I can also see the benefit of hunting this bull in his bedroom as some others have advocated. I have several friends who have gotten pretty good at calling them in in their bedroom.
If it was the last day you could hunt him what would you do different?

 

[Two Bear]

Glacier, I think the thread is predicated on chasing a bull that is in front of you and moving away. Given that dynamic, I personally feel that bugling will do little good, as very rarely will a herd bull on the move turn and come back to deal with you. Once his cows are bedded, the odds go up dramatically, and I even like to wait a few hours. If you dog a herd long enough, his cows will refuse to keep being pushed and the bull will forced by mutiny to deal with you. If the bull is being harassed by a satellite and vocal, I won\'t call at all but rather employ a sneak tactic, which is very effective. The satellite will bed by the herd, the bull will almost always take a defensive position between herd and satellite, when they get up to move, they will almost always move away from where the satellite is bedded. So, if you wait for them to bed, you know where the herd bull is most likely located, where the cows are located, and which direction they will most likely move in when they get up, very valuable pieces of information for stalking in or setting up to call.

 

[Glacier Country]

Two bear. I am not trying to sound arrogant,but That scenario describes a ton of elk I have taken. I\'m not saying it is right or wrong.You maybe right that the odds may be better in their bedroom? What I am saying is that it is an opportunity that I have capitalized on many times, by being aggressive and bugling. As soon as that bull bails over that hill I am going to run right at him full tilt,now the distance is closer to 40 yards. I then bugle at him just before the ridge. Then maybe the cows will scatter, He is either going to come in or go away.I am not pressuring him after that. I will be able to hear them and know what direction that they go. I have lost nothing and gained a chance. Now if the cows bust it\'s almost better, as long as they have not seen me or smelled me, I can play out a scenario in his mind that I am taking one of his cows. I have closed the deal in this situation time after time. As I said before I have friends that hunt them in their bedroom and have been successful. I just seem to call them in early in the morning leaving a food source. The only real difference between my scenario and yours is I had a chance to whack him before they get into the bedroom. If I want to follow them, and shadow them I still can.
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