Do you shoot?

[iccyman001]

After completing a cold call series, you catch movement over to your right.
It\'s your last day of hunting and you see this guy standing 35 yards away.





Are you shooting where he is now? Waiting? Passing?

 

[F M]

No shot where he is standing. No calls since that is what got him here staring at me all ready. If he stays calm and walks straight ahead there are better shots.

 

[mainebrdr]

+1 FM

 

[OldMan]

I use a muzzleloader. If i\'m 50 yds away, and have the gun shouldered. I\'d shoot. Even a slightly deflected bullet would still stay in the kill zone. Plus, I see a small opening I could shoot through.

If I was a bow hunter i\'d wait.

 

[AndyJ]

Waiting.

 

[Glacier Country]

With a bow you have to wait. With a rifle, shoot him in the neck, Boom!

 

[iccyman001]

Neck?

I\'ve only hunted whitetail with a rifle, but I\'ve never been taught to shoot the neck.
Can you explain the benefits of a neck shot Troy, verse maybe a double lung shot? Shoulder? Heart? etc

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Dang I guess I\'d be the only one shooting with a bow!

1) You can see where is vitals are.
2) 35 yards is pretty close. The velocity of my arrow at that distance is still very fast.
3) Those tree branches are very thin and have very little mass.
4) The bull is very close to the branches. Therefore the deflection will be minimal.

If the bull was set back a ways from the obstacle, it would be a no shoot for me.

I\'ve never lost an animal......so in order to maintain my perfect record I would take the time to consider shoot or no shoot. This would probably give the bull time enough jump.

 

[Glacier Country]

You are only 35 yards away...That elks spine is right where the little pine branch splits and forms a < with a RIFLE aim for the end of that little lower bough . The bull will go down ,from the shock of the bullet. Jack another round in the chamber and be ready to shoot again if need be. Shooting any shot is about confidence. at 35 yards I am going to get 2 shots if need be.

 

[AndyJ]

3) Those tree branches are very thin and have very little mass.
4) The bull is very close to the branches. Therefore the deflection will be minimal.

Come on John...Really? Even the slightest deflection can severely affect the trajectory of the arrow.

I\'ve never lost an animal

It shouldn\'t be long now if you take shots like this.

 

[flystrait]

I am waiting. I learned my lesson a few years ago with less brush than this the bull was about 1-2 feet on the other side and I thought I could shoot right over the top of the little pines, well I just ticked the top of the pine right at his vital and the arrow deflected right into his shoulder. This shot was at 30 yards. Needless to say he lived and I learned a hard lesson watching a 350 class bull run off with 28\" of arrow sticking out.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

3) Those tree branches are very thin and have very little mass.
4) The bull is very close to the branches. Therefore the deflection will be minimal.

Come on John...Really? Even the slightest deflection can severely affect the trajectory of the arrow.

I\'ve never lost an animal

It shouldn\'t be long now if you take shots like this.

Yes...really. If you understand arrow velocity, obstacle mass, the elk is completely broadside, and distant the target is behind the obstacle the you\'d know the deflection would not be significant enough to turn a good shot into a bad one.

\"It shouldn\'t be long now\"....we\'ll I guess opinions vary. But I\'ll go with what I discovered with my extended practice at the range shooting from different angles and through small foliage to guarantee that my perfect record remains perfect.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

So if I\'m wrong, explain why you think I\'m wrong. If I can hit inside the red circle 10 out of 10 times at any range up to 40, then why would it be a bad shot? Do you really think those small vine branches are enough to deflect the arrow that bad? Have you spent enough time with arrow deflection to understand how it works with your bow?

Spending time with arrow deflection should not be because you want to take more shots....its should be because you want to understand what factors cause bad shots. Example, at a farther distance say 70 yards one can see vitals very well but if the shooter isn\'t accounting for arrow trajectory then vertical obstacles might turn a good shot into a bad shot. For this picture, at 70 yards the arrow trajectory will clip the thick pine needle patch at the top of the red circle. Obstacle mass is greater and arrow velocity is less so that == No shot!

I\'m the first person everyone complains about because I DIDN\'T take the shot. But when one has time to think.....

 

[OldMan]

I know a 370gr lead conical would blast though those small branches. I was going to take that small opening ahead, and up just a hair of your red circle. Dead elk.

 

[cnelk]

Bow - I\'m waiting.
Just a bit too much foliage to sneak an arrow in.
Even tho he is close to the branches, those willows will absorb most of the shock of the arrow if they tough them, even if they don\'t deflect, resulting in very poor penetration.
The pine boughs don\'t bother me as much as the willows limbs do. They are relatively flat/horizontal while the willows are vertical and spidered out.

Rifle - Boom.
Just about anywhere in the foilage my 225gr Hornady from my .340 Wby will blow thru it like it was smoke.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Bow - I\'m waiting.
Just a bit too much foliage to sneak an arrow in.
Even tho he is close to the branches, those willows will absorb most of the shock of the arrow if they tough them, even if they don\'t deflect, resulting in very poor penetration.
The pine boughs don\'t bother me as much as the willows limbs do. They are relatively flat/horizontal while the willows are vertical and spidered out.

Rifle - Boom.
Just about anywhere in the foilage my 225gr Hornady from my .340 Wby will blow thru it like it was smoke.

I actually disagree. The velocity absorbed by the small branches would be no different then a shot at 70 yards. Different bows might vary but I\'d still get plenty on penetration. Guess it comes down to how much advanced testing you\'d done with your archery setup. At 35 yards arrows can make it through double rib bones and internal organs but those vines will reduce velocity to the point of poor penetration?

Do I recommend every take this shot.....only if you know your bow as well as I do.

Anyone ever try testing a shoulder blade of a elk? Ballistic jell is easy to make to put the shoulder blade in. That\'s a fun test for quartering towards and you\'ll see exactly why it\'s a NO Shoot.

 

[F M]

John I thought the same as you till I shot the bull in my avatar. He was only 20 yards from me when I shot him. There was a small opening like this photo that I thought I could slip the arrow through cleanly also. I don\'t know if its was nerves or what but I clipped a small twig in the opening and the arrow hit 4 inchs back, it slowed the arrow down enough that the arrow was still hanging in him when he ran off. If he had been facing the other way I would have hit him in the front shoulder. The twig was 2 feet in front of him. Yes I got him but it changed my mind on the shots I take now. I have lost one so I would rather wait. I know you know your shooting ability but it only takes one shot to change everything.

 

[Swede]

As a bow hunter I would have to wait. I do see John\'s point. If you are an excellent shot, there may be places open to the vitals. I would not judge a person that makes that shot. What I don\'t like to see is hunters take risks. For me that is a risky shot. For John it may be a slam dunk.

 

[cnelk]

JF
Are you saying I dont know my setup?
And maybe I dont do any advance testing with my archery setup?

 

[AndyJ]

John do you really not see that big honkin branch in the middle of your red dot? I mean no offense but I would not hunt with a guy that I saw take a shot at that red dot. I shoot A LOT. More than 100 arrows a day with few exceptions. I have been bow hunting for over 25 years and I have hunted a lot of thick brush back east. Still, to this day, I am amazed at how little brush or grass it takes to cause a huge deflection. It doesn\'t matter if your arrow hits around the right spot it also has to maintain a good trajectory.

This is going to sound really bad. I swear I am not trying to sound insulting. This is meant as nothing but an objective observation. I think being a good shot during practice and not losing an animal before tends to breed a little bit of arrogance in one\'s ability as an archer and naivete about arrow dynamics. I say this because I definitely had the same arrogance until last year...after I lost a big bull. If you think you can accurately predict how an arrow will deflect, you are only fooling yourself and one day a live animal is going to have to pay for it.