Elk Hunting Forum - elk language

[archery bum]

Cnelk,
does that mean you don\'t utilize location bugles?

I\'ll say it again I like simple, I try too keep things simple. I like Coreys system(basic). cnelk if you were walking around for a couple of hours and seen no elk or elk sign. You would just leave the area for another one without even firing off one location bugle just on the off chance an elk may answer back?

 

[mtnmutt]

I like KISS. My puny brain can handle that.

If you have a bunch of hunters going into the woods opening weekend and calling a bunch, what would you do for calls (vocal/non-vocal)?

Now it is 4th week archery, what elk language would you use? Estrus buzz, raking/stomping, bugle?

I have never bugled due to my hearing loss. However, I have these 2 cow calls which yielded some results of bulls coming to me: light single mew and Hail Mary let her rip loud whiny cow sound. The loud sound got a bull to come from a longer distance away. The light mew got bulls closer to come to me. My Hail Mary whiny cow sound has a lot of emotion in it. Keep in mind that I cannot hear a bull bugle back at me. A friend had to tell me that the bull bugled back after my whiny cow sound. I use the Mac Daddy mouthpiece off the bugle to make the sound.

In my high pressure CO hunting area, the lighter single sounds appear to be more effective.

This past season, I tried the \"I need a PhD in elk language\" to call. This failed for me. I am going back to KISS.

I still do not know how to do a calf or estrus buzz. Those are on my list to learn. I am on the fence if I will try bugling now that I have more hearing than last season.

I can do a nervous bark with voice only. I heard a spike make the same sound, so I know I got that mastered.

 

[flystrait]

OK,OK, I\'ve been sitting here biting my tongue long enough. Flystrait pretty much summed it up when he stated it makes him thing it may be (more) about marketing and sales. Personally, I think it is (all) about marketing and sales.

Bill, you always make me laugh in the good way of coarse. I hesitated a while before hitting submit my regional post. I tend to forget that this is a real hunting, learning, and mentoring forum where everyones opinion mean something and there are no personal hidden agendas for profit or status. I will always enjoy your comments!

Craig

 

[cnelk]

Cnelk,
does that mean you don\'t utilize location bugles?

I\'ll say it again I like simple, I try too keep things simple. I like Coreys system(basic). cnelk if you were walking around for a couple of hours and seen no elk or elk sign. You would just leave the area for another one without even firing off one location bugle just on the off chance an elk may answer back?

Yes. Absolutely.
Why risk having a bumbling hunter come in upwind and blow stuff all to hell.
I can get bulls to bugle with multiple whiny cow sounds. And if they don\'t bugle there is a good chance they are coming silent.

 

[cnelk]

I\'ll say it again.
Anyone who hunts with me gets to shoot at an elk.
I\'m not bragging its just the way I hunt and call elk
And no one has been disappointed on the opportunity yet, only when they miss

 

[Deertick]

Brad ...

do you suppose your non-location-bugling-ways are influenced by hunter density?

You know where I\'m coming from ... I\'ve hunted for 20 days in my current spot and seen hunters just 2 times ... as in \"seen\" and you can see a dang long ways there.

I would think that in areas with a higher density of hunters there are several factors that would make you bugle less or not at all\"

1. The elk have \"heard it all\" and are immediately suspicious, rather that curious.
2. You might call a hunter into \"your\" area
3. It\'s a stealthier way to hunt

Oh, and one more question:

If you don\'t location-bugle, does that include night-time bugling? (I would think none of the factors listed would apply to mid-night bugling.)

 

[cnelk]

You are probably spot on John. When hunting in high density hunter areas there are things you do and don\'t do. I don\'t hear a lot of bugles but I know the elk are around so why should I bugle?

As far as midnight bugling.... Never done it. Heard elk bugle about an hour before daylight from camp but the only call I do at midnight is answer the call of nature

 

[cohunter14]

Guys, as a non archery hunter and non caller (for the most part), I just wanted to throw my two cents in here (and definitely take it for what it\'s worth!).

I truthfully believe that Brad doesn\'t have to do a bunch of location bugles because he has a great idea of where the elk will be WITHOUT ever doing that. If they aren\'t where he thinks they could be, he moves on. This all comes down to learning your area as well as possible. But let\'s be honest, if you fire off a location bugle in an area, to me, you should be expecting the calls to come from certain spots, not surprised by where they come from. Therefore, get to know what those spots are and you don\'t need to location bugle.

At the end of the day, and it has been said before, the KISS method is best. Remember, this is not a science. Find the elk and kill an elk. I guarantee you there are a ton of those 10% guys out there who couldn\'t tell you one thing about what a bull is saying by doing this or that, but still they fill their tags every year. Weird, isn\'t it? :lol: The same thing goes for us rifle hunters...find the elk, kill the elk. Know where you should find them and get after it. If they aren\'t there, go to the next spot.

 

[siskiyou]

Welcome Siskiyou...we are practically neigbors!

Yea Jeff, I was down in Redding today with my friend picking up his new Hoyt Spider Turbo. We\'ll have to meet
sometime. I wouldn\'t bother the rest of the forum with this, but I haven\'t posted five posts, so can\'t send you
a PM.

 

[elkmtngear]

Welcome Siskiyou...we are practically neigbors!

Yea Jeff, I was down in Redding today with my friend picking up his new Hoyt Spider Turbo. We\'ll have to meet
sometime. I wouldn\'t bother the rest of the forum with this, but I haven\'t posted five posts, so can\'t send you
a PM.

Love to get together with ya Ron...and as far as bothering these guys...they\'re just gonna have to live with it! :lol:

Keep the input coming, you obviously have a lot of experience to bring to the table :upthumb:

 

[Bob Frapples]

......... I wouldn\'t bother the rest of the forum with this, but ......

Hey, no secrets! If this is a hunting guys facebook we need to know, JK.

 

[siskiyou]

Every few years I get onto a new tangent in the world of elk language...and sometimes I get too much tunnel vision for my own good. Last year I spent a few hours on the phone with Troy from https://glaciercountryhuntingcalls.com/. He\'s a great guy who loves to talk elk; and has great calls. We talked about all sorts of elk language, which he uses to great effect up in Montana. Some of our conversation was about Big Dan Moore and his use of dominant bull calling. So last year I latched on to sounding \'big and bad\'...kind of got tunnel vision about my \'new\' approach.

The first time we went into my favorite drainage we got a big growler bull going and I went ape with the dominant bull routine. I called him in to about 80 yards for my first-time archery elk partners. No one admitted to crapping their pants, but it was high intensity...and great fun.

I thought we had him by the short hairs a few mornings later when we came across some cows on a slope in the same drainage. I forget if ole growler sounded off on his own or if I got him going, but I soon realized that we\'d worked our way into his cows and that we were closer to them than he was. I started licking my chops.

Because this was the \'big and bad\' year I put a lot of voice into the call and followed it up with some big thumping grunts. I just knew that he\'d \'man up\' and come charging our way. But no...things went silent. The cows kept feeding and drifting up the drainage. I kept up my tough guy routine, and still nothing happened. After a while we heard him growling up the drainage where the cows had gone.

He had skirted around us silently and wandered off with the cows. Seems he wasn\'t a big tough Montana bull after all...he was a transplanted metro-sexual from Seattle.

So what\'s my point? Well sometimes things work out, and sometimes things don\'t work out...for me, there\'s been no formula. The idea that if you just \'say\' the right thing it will always result in a bull within shooting distance hasn\'t been my experience. Sometimes old bulls with growler voices are MMA fighters, and sometimes they have more of a Starbucks mentality.

 

[elkmtngear]

So what\'s my point? Well sometimes things work out, and sometimes things don\'t work out...for me, there\'s been no formula. The idea that if you just \'say\' the right thing it will always result in a bull within shooting distance hasn\'t been my experience. Sometimes old bulls with growler voices are MMA fighters, and sometimes they have more of a Starbucks mentality.

Good point, and this has been my experience as well. Some of the biggest bulls we\'ve seen have opted to run their cows over the next ridge rather than face a challenge...freakin\' Nancy boys! :evil:

One thing that always works best it seems, is being very close before you give \'em the slap across the face. But that is no guarantee!

 

[Glacier Country]

Siskiyou ... I\'m with you.

Think of talking to kids while in the car ... there\'s a difference between \"Cut it out\", \"CUT IT OUT!\", and pulling over on the side of the road, getting out and yelling \"NOW CUT IT OUT, DAMMIT!!!\".

All of them mean exactly the same thing, which is why it\'s so frustrating, and why I have no hair left.

I could imagine an elk, watching the road (as in the \"Drive-by elk hunting\" thread) and saying \"Now, see that? THAT is a Level 3 agitated-type grunt. When you hear that, all the kid has to do is say \'But\' ... just like that ... nothing fancy, just \'But\' ... and the human bull will come absolutely unglued.\"

Deertick, You just described TONE INTENSITY and PITCH in a NUT SHELL. Each time you said CUT IT OUT to the kids ... think about it you Escalated or( Intensified) the (Sternness ) TONE of YOUR VOICE... and each time you Raised your voice, to the next level. You were a little more ticked off and the so each level had a higher pitch! In your example then the kid CUT you off (So to speak) with, The word BUT, in this case it means... BUT DAD, so the kid can interject there thoughts and feelings into the situation. BUT you did not care at that point you are basically telling them to SHUT UP and be good ... or else... Pretty much the same for elk but most of the time it is some version of come here or go away! IMO
Also Flystraight and I have had conversations about how elk language and Horse language seem similar in many ways. You can read a lot about an elk by body language just as you would a horse.

 

[Deertick]

Troy ... I\'m a horse guy ... tell me more about horses and elk ...

Are you talking body language or actual verbalizations?

 

[trophyhill]

I\'ll say it again.
Anyone who hunts with me gets to shoot at an elk.
I\'m not bragging its just the way I hunt and call elk
And no one has been disappointed on the opportunity yet, only when they miss

If I don\'t draw.......see ya in sept I promise I won\'t be disappointed