Howdy Lady\'s/Gentlemen - Questions?

[JohnFitzgerald]

I was raised to always respect the animals you kill. This means covering your trophies during transport and restrain yourself from sharing pictures. My dad always thought that there was a large population that was borderline hunting-vs-non hunting. The more you share your kills, the likely they were to switch to supporting the non hunting side.

Don\'t get me wrong, I hold no ill will to those that do share. But my question is why do you share? Is it to get others interested in hunting?

I\'ve taken many animals in my life. Mostly cows, spikes, rags, and a few satellites. And even more elk have did in front of me that I\'ve called in for others. Now, I choose to wait for a 300+ bull. They run in the area I hunt so it\'s more of a challenge and I really don\'t mind eating tag soup. Really, for me it\'s about the chase.

Those that have killed many elk, why do you still arrow the first legal animal?

 

[Deertick]

Hey, John.

I agree, by the way, that HOW you share your hunting has a lot to do with how hunting itself is seen.

The best way to share is with a bottle of good wine and decent conversation!

With all the \"green\" empathy out there, I\'ve found that many non-hunters are intrigued with the idea of how \"green\" an activity hunting really is. And that is sometimes an introduction to conservation discussions.

If you start out with the idea of trophy hunting polar bears, you\'ve got an uphill battle.

Key words: sustainability, natural, free-range, free-bred, organic, pesticide-free.

As to why I will shoot a \"first legal\" animal ... well, it\'s because that\'s what we eat at our house.

I live in a fairly liberal town for Wyoming, but even the liberals here, for the most part, understand and respect the value of hunting. They see it as somehow \"greener\" and more humane than ranching. With all of them being into \"paleo\"-this and \"paleo\"-that, they can\'t deny that it is very natural, and so I try to draw a parallel with gardening.

 

[Deertick]

I know this has been around for quite a while ... but it\'s one of my favorites, so I\'m posting it, and it really pertains to what I was trying to say in my answer about \"sharing your kill\".

Univ of Alberta professor Lee Foote puts this \"Wild Game Disclaimer\" next to his venison at gatherings to open some people to the discussion of why we hunt. I love it:

\"This animal, like its ancestors and progeny, was produced
locally. The meat herein was produced as a result of free genetic
exchange (no artificial insemination). The animal was not castrated,
or forced onto a synchronized breeding schedule. She lived to maturity
(4 1/2 years) and reproduced at least once, but most likely had three
sets of twins. The meat contains no antibiotics, synthetic steroids,
artificial growth hormones or insecticide residues. Its production
required no landclearing, fencing, fertilizing or feedlots. Her life
did not contribute to the destruction of associated fauna and
flora. No manure was collected or spread on erosion-prone pastures to
produce (or as a result of) its growth. This animal was not confined,
transported or kept in crowded conditions at any point in its
life. The lean, unmarbled meat was not wrapped in plastic and
Styrofoam packaging. No nitrates or sulfites were applied to prevent
discolouration. No fossil fuels were used for specialized refrigerator
transport or cold-storage ageing. Associated inedible parts were not
reconstituted into cattle meal or dog food. Inedible parts were fed to
indigenous fauna (most likely coyotes, magpies and ravens). Her bones
provided calcium to the aspen grove where she was feeding. Substantial
calories were metabolized by the hunter over several days to secure
this meat. She died quickly, and honourably. Before, as well as after,
her death she was treated with reverence and respect. Allowing my
participation in a natural cycle was this animal\'s gift to me. The
energy that flowed from sun to plant to deer now also flows through
me. This meal does offer reflection, natural continuity, appreciation,
health, hope, and tangible renewal of life. Let us prey.\"

 

[archery bum]

A lot of people have been wondering what happen to you john, welcome back. For me its simple, I love wild game meat my freezer is full of it. So let me ask you this, You do not prefer the taste of the meat of the animal that you harvest? Sounds like you have become a head hunter?

 

[cohunter14]

John, first and foremost, it is great to see you on here. To answer your question of why I shoot the first legal animal I can, I guess I would have to say that I haven\'t taken enough trophies or elk overall to justify risking tag soup for a larger rack. Maybe someday I\'ll get there, but at this point I love the idea of filling the freezer and coming away with a victory in the chess match

 

[cnelk]

John Fitzgerald is here...
All is well.
Welcome!

The areas I hunt have very few 300 class bulls. The DAU is managed for a high population of cow elk.
With many cows also come many raghorns.

Colorado has the Pref Point system in place to hunt trophy area is a hunter so desires.
It also has OTC tags.

I am a \'Hunter-Gatherer\'
I do not look a gift horse in the mouth
I eat elk meat, not horns

I also wear camo when I go to town. I am proud of who I am and what I do.
I will explain my actions to anyone who questions them.

If I display my harvest for the public to see, it will be with respect.
The same respect I deserve when looking at someone else\'s passion.

I will shoot a cow elk as fast as I will a 300 class bull.

 

[Jaquomo]

Glad you\'re back over here, John!

In our house, it\'s just my wife and I. We love wild game and the fish I catch. If I kill an elk and a deer, that\'s enough to feed us for two years, even with sharing a good amount. A deer plus walleyes and trout will keep us going for a season. Our freezer hasn\'t been without big game meat for over 30 years, and some seasons I\'ve given away a whole elk to friends who hunted hard but weren\'t fortunate.

I\'m at a point in my hunting career where I have the time to hunt and the knowledge and confidence that I can take a mature representative of whatever I\'m hunting. When I hunt units like cnelks where an extra cow tag is available, you betcha I\'ll kill a cow right away. If it gets down to the wire, I believe I will somehow figure out a way to put something in the freezer. That mindset has blessed me with the taking of a good number of beautiful trophies of the hunt, each one honored with a special place where I can look at them and remember every little aspect of the hunt and the experience, and which my wife admires and asks me to tell the story again and again (she\'s a non-hunter). Each of those animals fed us well. These trophies are for us to admire - not to show off to others. (I have a giant muley that my wife misses looking at, so I now have to move him from the sunroom to the front room and swap him with the Scottish Highland Red Stag to shut her up..)

Some think that \"trophy hunting\" and \"meat hunting\" are mutually exclusive. They can be, but don\'t have to be. If I\'d taken the first legal animal on every hunt, I wouldn\'t have the great opportunities to kill some treasures of a lifetime.

John, your dad was correct about the fine line. There are approximately the same percentage of hunters as anti-hunters. Everyone else falls somewhere along the Bell Curve. It\'s our job to nudge and keep them on our side of the curve. I share with as many non-hunters as possible. My next door neighbor was a hard-core anti (psychiatrist) before we met. Now tonight she\'s eating elk summer sausage with smoky cheese, and will have some round steaks with us on Saturday. The past few seasons she\'s come over to the garage in the fall to look at hanging carcasses with big racks. She now appreciates what I do. When the vote comes, I think she\'ll be on our (my) side.

 

[flystrait]

Hey big JF! Glad to see you again.

I respect everyone and the way they hunt no matter what. We need each and IMO. For me I hunt for the hunt itself and hold out for bulls only and for a 300\" class and bigger. I do like wild game meat and we are never in short supply in my home. I have a 16 year son, he will kill any elk that\'s legal in the area we hunt. I think that is great as well and encourage him to make his own choice just like everyone else who is responding. I am just as happy to share in the harvest of any kind and will do my best to support anyone with that mindset. We are all different and should not be judged, not that we are. I think the biggest thing we have in common is the love for the outdoors, the hunt and harvest for our efforts. I will share pictures of all kinds to who are interested to keep the thing we love to do free.

 

[bnsafe]

hello john, good to have you an your knowledge here.
i quit shooting whitetails because i was holding out for a big one. it ruined hunting for me. an i quit bowhunting. i wont ever do that again

 

[WW]

Hey John, good to see ya. And a big wELKome to Elkmentors. The old gang is slowly gathering and Swede still picks on everyone as usual. He just doesn\'t know that we like it.

Around these parts a trophy bull is very rare. Fives and small sixes are the norm. The rifle hunters keep them cleaned out as fast as they grow. Can\'t say as though I blame them when there is nothing better to shoot at.

As for myself, I\'ll pass on the legal 4 pointers and hope for something better. But when I need meat, I\'m not above taking a dry cow. I\'m at a point in life where I love to hunt but the kill is not all that important. I\'m not on an ego trip and I don\'t feel a need to impress anyone.

Again, wELKome to the forum. And hope to see many more post from you.

 

[Zpd307]

before I was married, I didn\'t eat much of the deer I killed. so I started holding out for a good buck. I had several chances at deer back in 04, especially the best buck I had ever a chance to shoot, a very nice 8 pointer. cool story, he bedded 40 yards in front of me for over a hour. I was yelled at by my party, since I didn\'t fill us out. but, I went back the next weekend and my buddy killed that 8 pointer, man he was nice! but I ended up getting even nicer 150 class 10 pointer. my wife likes the meat, so do the boys, so I haven\'t hunted like that since...

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Thanks guys, glad to be back with the family.

The reason I pass on smaller bulls or cows isn\'t because of the glory of a big kill. For me it\'s more about the challenge. I like the taste of elk meat, but not as much the moo cow I butcher every year. :silent:

Lately I\'ve been questioning my logic. For years I\'ve been the \"caller\". I spend the season helping others fill tags and hope to get a shot of my own. Towards the end of the season, I\'ll take a lesser animal. But usually I\'ve passed on several elk in the early season. Last year, I had 2 different opportunities to fill my tag on the second weekend. So I\'m thinking maybe I should just fill my tag, then spend the rest of the year calling for others. The good thing is I\'ve meet a great hunting buddy(aka ChuckarNUT) that has the same passion as I do.

For those that fill their tag and then help others, what\'s some downfalls to this? With a filled tag, what keeps you motivated to call the rest of the season?

jf

 

[Swede]

I do not know if there is a real down side. For me I just relax and call for others, to help out, after I kill my elk. I stay focused on getting my own first, then jump in to help fill out the others tags when I am done. I guess there is no right or wrong answer.

 

[Bullnuts]

Hi John, good to see you here!
For me, I\'ve seen those big bulls in my area too, and I would love to just once put a truly huge head on my wall. I am totally amazed by the animal, its features, its incredible beauty, and I love the way bulky elk antlers look. That said, I\'m also a realist who knows that 1/3 of my yearly red meat intake is going to be in elk. My family of 5 depends on having an elk in the freezer every year, and whether its a big fat cow or a 4X4, we\'re on a mission to fill the freezer first.

As for displaying heads and such on vehicles, etc, I choose not to do that. I\'ve seen some incredibly rank displays, living off of US 50 in Colorado, which is a primary route into the SE mountains. I\'ve seen heads that were on the verge of rotten, heads lopped off at the jaw bone riding atop ATV seats, etc. It just looks nasty. And my personal belief is that it is disrespectful to the animal to put its head on display like that.

 

[OldMan]

Good to see you again John.

As for your question. All my friends are hunters. only one of them uses my method of still hunting, and I taught him how to do it. All the other hunters use about every method you can thing of from calling, long range shots, spot and stalk, and even tree stands. I go on their hunts as much as possible to help out, and just hang out. I\'m very picky about hunting alone when i\'m hunting, but on someone else\' s hunt anything goes. I help out as much as possible. Mostly in finding elk/deer, and hauling out the meat. It\'s also been interesting in watching the different hunting methods over the years.

I do it mostly, because I love elk hunting, and can never get enough of it. I don\'t need to pull the trigger to have a good time.

 

[elkmtngear]

John, good to see you over here!

I\'m a meat hunter, plain and simple. I know 300+ bulls are a rare occurrence where I hunt, and opportunities can be limited...so I\'ll usually take the first legal bull.

And I have a hard time exercising restraint when a legal big game animal is within spitting distance :lol:

As for why I share pics, it\'s just like any other sharing, I appreciate the kill pics of others as well. Mutual appreciation I guess.

Are you sure this topic is controversial enough for ya ? :lol:

For those that fill their tag and then help others, what\'s some downfalls to this? With a filled tag, what keeps you motivated to call the rest of the season?

jf

A love of being in the elk woods and being in the middle of them...I can\'t seem to get enough of it! And I LOVE seeing someone take their first elk. Nothing like it :upthumb:

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Not trying to be controversial. :angle:

Trying to understand the main flow. Maybe I can gain the courage to post more of my previous kill pictures or take the first legal animal. But I keep hearing dad and grandpa words ringing in my head.....\"Why did you show that picture or shoot a cow. Thought we tought you better\". At times I get tired of being the outsider and want to be like everyone else. :crazy:

 

[flystrait]

You show me yours and I will show you mine :upthumb:

 

[OldMan]

Not trying to be controversial. :angle:

Trying to understand the main flow. Maybe I can gain the courage to post more of my previous kill pictures or take the first legal animal. But I keep hearing dad and grandpa words ringing in my head.....\"Why did you show that picture or shoot a cow. Thought we tought you better\". At times I get tired of being the outsider and want to be like everyone else. :crazy:

I was brought up the same way with no pictures, or antlers. My dad always thought it was just bragging. It was pushed into me for so many years I did the same thing all my life.

I never wanted to be like everybody else anyway. I\'ll just be me, and you be you.

 

[bowhunter]

Not trying to be controversial. :angle:

Trying to understand the main flow. Maybe I can gain the courage to post more of my previous kill pictures or take the first legal animal. But I keep hearing dad and grandpa words ringing in my head.....\"Why did you show that picture or shoot a cow. Thought we tought you better\". At times I get tired of being the outsider and want to be like everyone else. :crazy:

Welcome John, There is nothing wrong with showing pics or shooting cows. I am sure everyone here understands and will not judge. The ones who complain about us killing theese poor helpless animals need to be talked to like Cnelk mentioned. We hunters need to educate them why we hunt and the fact that most of the money used for wildlife habitat and management is raised by hunters.

Maybe a few pics of the starving animals from an over populated place with no food because of over browsing would help them understand. Some are just to thick headed and you will never get thrugh to them the benifits of hunting.

We should clean our trophy before we post bloody pics. No tongue hanging out or blood everywhere. Show our respect for theese great animals.