I need a new gameplan

[timberland]

My CO unit that is a \"bread and butter\" hunt like Brad called it is a draw unit. So when I apply for other states I get into a situation where I might get drawn for 3 elk hunts in one year. That\'s hard to swing with the \"management\". I\'ve never hunted an OTC unit, mine is pretty much a guarantee draw, but its the commitment that throws a hamper on things. I\'ve heard great things about OTC units, and I\'ve heard hunting a 0 pp unit is just like OTC, but I am leary of the OTC situation.

So I am proposing a swap of intel for \"my\" unit for a better than average OTC area. In my unit I might see 1-3 other hunters in ten days and our success for 5 guys averages 50% kills (about half bulls) so I\'m looking for something similar in an OTC. We see big bulls every year and a friend of mine has killed 2 over 300\" with the rifle in that area.

So....anybody in learning a new spot to share a spot with me?

 

[cnelk]

How do you like to hunt?
Truck/base camp? Bivy? Motel?

What terrain do you prefer?

 

[timberland]

I have always hunted out of a base camp but am experienced enough to do overnights or extended stay in a small camp. Open to any terrain that doesn\'t kill me.

 

[cohunter14]

I would love to share a few areas with you Barry, but unfortunately they are all similar to your current unit in that they are draw areas. I have some basic info on a few OTC units that I\'d be happy to share, but I think you\'d be better off finding someone who has had some success in a unit. Let me know if someone doesn\'t pipe in and I\'ll give you a few ideas.

 

[AndyJ]

I\'ll be perfectly honest with you the same OTC unit can be phenomenal one year and very tough the next. The same is true with the crowds. I hunt an OTC unit every year. I had three spots that I called my spots. I would go years without seeing another hunter and my partner and I would see lots of elk every year. If I sent you to any one of those three spots this year, you would have called me a liar and a cheat. If you pick an inconvenient to access unit and an inconvenient to access spot you will find elk and, typically, few people.

 

[cohunter14]

If you pick an inconvenient to access unit and an inconvenient to access spot you will find elk and, typically, few people.

Good point on the inconvenience Andy...the closer to the front range, the worse for the most part.

 

[Jaquomo]

I would suggest a couple units with no reciprocation except I left them because they got overrun. Lots of elk, lots of hunters.

Yesterday I was stocking fish and the fish truck driver noticed the antlers outside my cabin. Turns out he is a fairly new bowhunter. Long story short, he and his three buddies hunt the EXACT drainages and mountain I left behind. They knew the slob-hunter Wisconsin camp, the rancher who guards access at a public corner, the hidden draw where two guys illegally camp in a State Trust hunting area. His one close call with a bull this season was in the exact same meadow where I shot a 7x bull a few years ago. Small world.

That unit is tough to access, requires almost all foot travel to get in anywhere, but the further in you go the closer you are to guys hiking in from the other side.

Since I moved to a unit with a lot of ATV roads, I\'m finding solitude again.

 

[timberland]

So I understand it\'s pretty much a crap shoot when finding a new OTC area as crowds and elk come and go. It\'s just really hard when you only hunt an area every other year or so and live 1000 miles away. If I had to choose between crowds and elk, I would definitely take fewer elk with fewer people.

 

[cnelk]

Barry
Yes. Crap shoot at best.
OTC units are the last resort for some hunters based on unsuccessful / successful draws or last minute decisions.

For instance, this year I will only hunt my OTC spots for a couple weekends as my long elk hunt will take place in Wyoming.
I am hoping to get an elk before I go to WY but my areas won\'t see my weeklong pressure.

This circumstance can happen in any OTC unit, any year.

Another source of data is to go look at the tag allocations for this year.
I see they increased ML tags in some units so that would mean more pressure during that time.
And could also affect elk a few days after that season.

I realize that any OTC unit can have a decent bull opportunity but that can be fleeting at best.

 

[OldMan]

Yes, so true. I have to hunt an OTC unit this year, but i\'m hoping for a leftover tag instead. I won\'t buy the OTC tag until the last minute when all other options have failed.

 

[Jaquomo]

If you look at hunter success rates on the CPW website, be very careful. The data isn\'t accurate, and in units with lots of outfitted private land the overall success rate may be fairly high, but for the public land hunters it can be extremely low. Cnelk and I are very familiar with several units like that.

I moved to a much more rugged unit with fewer elk, but most of the hunters aren\'t willing to go very far off the roads.

If you\'re going to hunt OTC, best bet is to just pick a unit with a decent success ratio, good amount of public land, do all the research you can on the CPW website with their statistics and maps, then get a good map like StartMyHunt to pair with the USFS map of the area. Figure out where the roads and ATV trails are, Start triangulating, and pretty soon you\'ll get a clear picture of where elk may go when pressured. Settle on four or five likely spots, be very mobile with your camp, and go hunting. You\'ll find elk.

 

[cohunter14]

Barry, you do realize that if you draw your Colorado tag, but also draw a tag in another state, that you can turn your tag in and get a refund, right? From the sounds of it, you have a pretty good unit right now and the only reason you are considering moving is the planning portion. My suggestion would be to keep doing what you are doing, but if you do happen to draw another state, simply turn your tag in for a refund.

 

[timberland]

I thought it was only a partial refund, like 50%. A full or partially full refund would solve the problem as I do like to hunt where I have been successful.

 

[cohunter14]

It\'s a full refund minus the application fee and the habitat stamp, so $14 is what you would pay.

 

[cnelk]

Barry
If you choose to surrender your license before the season starts, you can choose either a full refund [less $3 app fee & $10 Habitat Stamp] or restore your PPs.
PPs are reinstated to a pre-draw level.

See page 8 of the Regs.

GETTING REFUNDS OR
RESTORING YOUR PREFERENCE POINTS
1. Refunds for unsuccessful applicants are issued by
June 26. The $3 application fee and $10 Habitat Stamp
fee are nonrefundable. Refunds are sent to applicant,
regardless of who paid for the original application.
2. If you choose to surrender your license to CPW before
the season starts, you may choose to receive either a
refund OR have the preference points restored
that you used to obtain the license.
To get a refund or preference point(s) restored, you
must relinquish your license and carcass tag before
opening day of the season. License must be accompanied
by a completed request form obtained at a CPW
location or on the website.
Preference points are reinstated to a pre-draw level,
you do NOT receive an additional preference point for
2015.
Requests must be postmarked before the season
starts. If there isn?t enough time to request a form, mail
your license and carcass tag with a letter to CPW. It
must be postmarked before the season starts and mailed
to CPW, attn: Refund Office, 6060 Broadway, Denver,
CO 80216.
3. After a season starts, refund or preference point restorations
are limited to extreme medical circumstances
of licensee, death of the licensee or death of licensee?s
immediate family member, or members of the U.S.
military whose service prevented them from requesting
a refund or reinstatement on time.
These requests must be accompanied by evidence
that the license has not been used and circumstances
precluded the licensee from being able to use it.
4. Refunds and preference point restorations are not
considered more than 30 days after a season starts. The
only exception is for members of the U.S. military as
noted above.

 

[OldMan]

I\'ve always hated that setup Brad. When you give up a tag, and want to keep the points you had. You don\'t get a refund at all. You\'re basically buying back the points you had. That\'s not right. If you don\'t use the tag you should get back your points, and a refund. If not, and they\'re going to keep the refund you should get your old points, plus one more point since you paid for the tag, but didn\'t hunt.

The system is wrong the way it is now.

 

[timberland]

My zone is a 0 pt draw so that works well for me. Thanks for all the help. good thread.

 

[Jaquomo]

Still Hunter, there are many things wrong with the overall draw system the way it is now. But they have no reason to change it.

Whenever they do make changes (ie.. taking more tags out of the regular hunter pool to give to outfitters to sell) they seem to screw it up even more.

I guess we\'re lucky they even offer the option of a refund or points back.

 

[timberland]

Barry
If you choose to surrender your license before the season starts, you can choose either a full refund [less $3 app fee & $10 Habitat Stamp] or restore your PPs.
PPs are reinstated to a pre-draw level.

See page 8 of the Regs.

GETTING REFUNDS OR
RESTORING YOUR PREFERENCE POINTS
1. Refunds for unsuccessful applicants are issued by
June 26. The $3 application fee and $10 Habitat Stamp
fee are nonrefundable. Refunds are sent to applicant,
regardless of who paid for the original application.
2. If you choose to surrender your license to CPW before
the season starts, you may choose to receive either a
refund OR have the preference points restored
that you used to obtain the license.
To get a refund or preference point(s) restored, you
must relinquish your license and carcass tag before
opening day of the season. License must be accompanied
by a completed request form obtained at a CPW
location or on the website.
Preference points are reinstated to a pre-draw level,
you do NOT receive an additional preference point for
2015.
Requests must be postmarked before the season
starts. If there isn?t enough time to request a form, mail
your license and carcass tag with a letter to CPW. It
must be postmarked before the season starts and mailed
to CPW, attn: Refund Office, 6060 Broadway, Denver,
CO 80216.
3. After a season starts, refund or preference point restorations
are limited to extreme medical circumstances
of licensee, death of the licensee or death of licensee?s
immediate family member, or members of the U.S.
military whose service prevented them from requesting
a refund or reinstatement on time.
These requests must be accompanied by evidence
that the license has not been used and circumstances
precluded the licensee from being able to use it.
4. Refunds and preference point restorations are not
considered more than 30 days after a season starts. The
only exception is for members of the U.S. military as
noted above.

Pretty straight forward. Any Ideas how it would work with a group application if one person wanted to bail?

 

[cnelk]

When guys apply as a group, only the least amount of PPs are used / apply.

So lets say 3 guys apply as group
One guy has 2 PP, two guys have 1 PP.
The PP for the group is 1.

Or if two guys have 2 PP and one has 0, the PP total for the group is 0.

Once the tags are drawn, any one [or all] of the group can return their tag and get a refund or their PP return to pre-draw levels.

I learned many, many years ago that applying as a group has drawbacks, and this is one of them.
The biggest problem with group applications is that if ONE person messes up his application, the entire group is screwed.

IMO - Never, ever apply as a group