Is bad calling still better than no calling?

[iccyman001]

If there was a grading scale for calling, I\'d have my own sub category of bad....

That\'s beside the point though, I will keep practicing and hopefully get this down.



For you seasoned callers, seasoned elk hunters, or seasoned hunters period; is bad calling better than no calling at all?
Are we better off because we still could somewhat sound like an elk?
Can we still call in younger bulls?
Maybe it\'s odd enough it fires up some huge bull and they come in to check?


I had mentioned my calling last year brought in a spike horn and someone told me that spikes are dumb/curious and will come into anything.
I also went turkey hunting for the first time ever this year, my calling was extremely sub par, but I still fired up and brought in birds.


So, what is your advice to people? Keep practicing and then call?
Or go out there as a bad caller and do it anyways?

 

[Deertick]

Most of us over-think what it means to be good at something, and here you are over-thinking what it means to be bad! :lol:

I do think that there is a lot more room for \"error\" than we realize. I\'m not a terribly experienced elk hunter, but I\'ve certainly heard actual elk call that sounded like, well, like what you said you sound like.

That said, a good caller (whether of elk or ducks and geese or turkeys) is a real pleasure to watch, and they take the game to a whole new level. It\'s kind of like taking my old lab who has retrieved a few birds a year and hunting her next to a German Shorthair who makes her living hunting every day.

Can I get birds with my lab? Sure. Is taking her better than nothing? Sure, by a long way. Is she working commercially at this for her job? Lord, no, or she\'d be fired.

 

[otcWill]

Depends on how bad we\'re talking. I tell friends to keep their calls in their pocket every year when they whip out a cow call and it sounds like a wounded goose. You should be able to at least make simple herd talk that sounds authentic IMO. Otherwise, yes, terrible calling that doesn\'t sound like an elk is worse than no calling. If you are talking about not being able to deliver a great lip bawl, growl, assembly mew, or nervous grunt, then you are overthinking it. Just don\'t use the sounds that you can\'t get at least decent with.

 

[cnelk]

I dont see a reason for anyone not to be a \'fair to decent\' caller these days.
There are lots of videos and good / easy calls on the market.
Just take some time and get used to it

I have heard some bad calling and I think its better for those people to grab a stick and beat on tree than to sound like a wounded goose.

 

[timberland]

No, and even good calling can be worse than no calling. I\'ve been on a couple week long hunts where elk were unresponsive at best and it seemed that all calling accomplished was letting them know you are there. I have never killed an elk I have called in, and I can count on one hand the number of elk that have made a move towards my position because of my calling.

I think calling is a great tool to have in your kit, but I think too many new hunters focus too much effort on being proficient and neglect the woodsmanship that can get you into shooting opportunities.

 

[OldMan]

Yes Barry. It seems woodsmanship is a dying art.

 

[Swede]

I pretty much agree with what Barry posted. Great sounds do not always equate to good calling. Even great calls can drive elk out of an area that is saturated with hunters blaring away. Where I hunt, very discrete calling can help. Run and gun, blaring away, sends elk to the neighboring ranch. For most OTC areas, a bow hunter is better off learning a thing or two from Pete, than picking up a video and practicing what Elknut and others advocate. I am satisfied that what Elknut recommends is fine for his area. We need to adapt our calling to our hunting grounds.

 

[iccyman001]

Alright..... I\'m tracking with everything, but the woodsman is a dying art comment.

You lost me on that one Pete.

I\'d like to hear how someone who is a caller doesn\'t make them a woodsman.

 

[timberland]

Your looking at it from the opposite side. You can be a \"woodsman\" and be a good caller. But the best caller in the world will chase away elk in the wrong situation. Learning to find elk, read and interpret sign, patterns, wind, etc. etc. is WAY more important than being better than average on an elk call.

Like I said, my archery success is 75% and I did have fun tooting on my calls while hunting, but if that\'s all I knew how to elk hunt my success would be 0%.

 

[iccyman001]

I understand completely. I also don\'t claim to be a caller or use it as a primary method. Just like I don\'t rattle or toot on a grunt all the time while hunting a whitetail.

I am just dabbling in another method for hunting. Hunting has always been very flexible for me, when one thing doesn\'t work for me then I may try something else to get it going.

Will I keep calling and at least become a decent caller? Absolutely. That way I have that tool for when it\'s needed.


Will it be my primary method or game plan killing an elk. Absolutely not.

I\'ll be honest with you, even if I get this calling down I will probably chicken out doing it in the woods because I would be scared my noises wouldn\'t be right and I\'d scare it away.



One thing I can say about myself as a hunters is I like to have experience or education in everything.

Because even if I can take one piece from it away to become a more effective hunter, than I am!

 

[Swede]

Alright..... I\'m tracking with everything, but the woodsman is a dying art comment.

I know You asked Pete, and he will respond, but let me take a stab at it.

You can be a good caller and a good hunter without becoming a good woodsman. You can even be a good survivalist. A good woodsman sees and understands many things few hunters, that are in that environment for one or two weeks per year can ever, can ever attain. Here are a few examples that may help answer your question:

As we move through the forest, I notice several rocks have been turned over. What caused them to be turned?
Walking farther along we see a five pound pile of grass clippings. I stop and pick up some. What do I do with it? What caused the pile.
Do you recognize when it is safe to walk a downed tree, and when the bark is dangerously loose?
What is the likely reason the forest just suddenly got quiet?
Can you look over an opposing hillside and pick out likely water holes?
Can you quickly build a fire in a rainstorm without a bunch of commercial fire starter?
Do you automatically feel a panic when, night envelops you two while you are miles back in the timber and you have no light?
Can you go to sleep there and hike out in the morning?
If you can handle these kinds of questions you are probably a woodsman.

 

[iccyman001]

Fair enough and I had a feeling that is what he was getting at. I just wanted to make sure I was on the right page before I responded.

You guys are talking apples to oranges here.

Does one question you as a woodsman because you walk in and hunt from a tree stand?

Does one question Pete as a woodsman because he uses a muzzleloader with a scope that shoots probably MOA from the box.

The answer is no.

Hunting started with sticks and rocks.
We are now using bows that shoot 400fps, guns that can shoot out to 1000m, and more crazy gear than we could ever explain.

Calling to me is a tool. Just like still hunting or tree stand hunting, you have tools to enhance your chances.

Whether it\'s something as simple as slipping on your silent slippers to walk quietly or using a third arm on your tree stand to hang your bow, these tools help you on your hunt.

These tools have nothing to do with being a woodsman.


These tools don\'t put my into the elk, my skills and abilities put me into and on the elk.

My \"woodsmenship\" gets me to where I need to be. My tools help me finish the job.

 

[OldMan]

Dan..........It\'s a long long list, and calling would be a very small part of it. No part for me.

I could write a book about it. Here\'s just a few things.

The ability to operate and function naturally, instinctively, and successfully in the outdoors.

The ability and skill to move quietly, stepping softly, looking 3 steps ahead & not breaking twigs, working along edges, thru shadows, using cover, slowing down the pace, staying aware of wind direction, and natural noises around you. And doing this without thinking about it.

Knowing the difference of sound from a bird, squirrel, deer, wind, or turkey on leaves, or in undergrowth.

The ability to have a built in secondary listening system.

The ability to use terrain to conceal movement, to pick natural or functional ambush spots that provide concealment.

The ability to read sign such as tracks, scratching\'s, feathers on the ground, and any specific animal evidence.

The learned skill of spotting and mentally recording food sources of the game you hunt.

The ability to process all evidence gathered on a given outing and compile with previous information to reach preliminary assessments and conclusions.

The ability to utilize \"right now\" factors as well as previously gathered information.

The ability to gain enough experience that a instinctive \"hunch\" factor and reactions become second nature.

The development of a sixth sense that just tells you you\'re in the \"area\".....somethings close..... stop now!

The ability to implement woods wisdom thru exposed experience in the woods to be utilized in an effort to hunt and take any specific quarry you seek.

Then of course you have survival which would be a very long list. Could you survive with just the clothes on your back, and a knife?

 

[timberland]

Dan..........It\'s a long long list, and calling would be a very small part of it. No part for me.

I could write a book about it. Here\'s just a few things.

The ability to operate and function naturally, instinctively, and successfully in the outdoors.

The ability and skill to move quietly, stepping softly, looking 3 steps ahead & not breaking twigs, working along edges, thru shadows, using cover, slowing down the pace, staying aware of wind direction, and natural noises around you. And doing this without thinking about it.

Knowing the difference of sound from a bird, squirrel, deer, wind, or turkey on leaves, or in undergrowth.

The ability to have a built in secondary listening system.

The ability to use terrain to conceal movement, to pick natural or functional ambush spots that provide concealment.

The ability to read sign such as tracks, scratching\'s, feathers on the ground, and any specific animal evidence.

The learned skill of spotting and mentally recording food sources of the game you hunt.

The ability to process all evidence gathered on a given outing and compile with previous information to reach preliminary assessments and conclusions.

The ability to utilize \"right now\" factors as well as previously gathered information.

The ability to gain enough experience that a instinctive \"hunch\" factor and reactions become second nature.

The development of a sixth sense that just tells you you\'re in the \"area\".....somethings close..... stop now!

The ability to implement woods wisdom thru exposed experience in the woods to be utilized in an effort to hunt and take any specific quarry you seek.

Then of course you have survival which would be a very long list. Could you survive with just the clothes on your back, and a knife?

I just wish I could tell if the cropped grass clumps were from elk feeding or moo cows. Everything else I\'m good on! :lolno:

 

[cnelk]

Did someone say \'elknut\'?

Here are the only elknuts that matter to me

 

[OldMan]

I just wish I could tell if the cropped grass clumps were from elk feeding or moo cows. Everything else I\'m good on! :lolno:

That\'s easy. Do you see any cow crap in the area?

 

[iccyman001]

Pete,

I understand your list and what you and John are trying to say. Can I do everything on your list? Yes, I am sure I could, but I am not here to define my \"woodsman\" knowledge to the forum.

Heck, usually the one I am the one who is making threads again alternate methods to calling.

I will however stand up and say that you saying people who call are not woodsman and that it\'s a dying art is wrong.


I feel we are talking about two separate things here.

 

[OldMan]

Pete,

I understand your list and what you and John are trying to say. Can I do everything on your list? Yes, I am sure I could, but I am not here to define my \"woodsman\" knowledge to the forum.

Heck, usually the one I am the one who is making threads again alternate methods to calling.

I will however stand up and say that you saying people who call are not woodsman and that it\'s a dying art is wrong.


I feel we are talking about two separate things here.

You know what I really hate? When someone either misunderstands me, or tries to put words in my mouth. I\'m going to quote what I said, and you explain to me where I said hunters who call are not woodsman?

My quote:

\"Yes Barry. It seems woodsmanship is a dying art.\"

 

[timberland]

Did someone say \'elknut\'?

Here are the only elknuts that matter to me

WOW. That\'s a TROPHY! I hope you made your wife a purse out of that.

 

[Swede]

I know we have strayed from the main topic , (well we have hijacked the thread), but it is evident we all see things a little differently about woodsmanship. I feel close to how Pete does, but maybe you are a woodsman if you can be in the forest by yourself in a storm, or at night and be at peace.

BTW, I picked up the grass clump and smelled it. It was what was left from a dead deer or elk after the critters had carried off the rest.