Is bad calling still better than no calling?

[iccyman001]

Pete,

I understand your list and what you and John are trying to say. Can I do everything on your list? Yes, I am sure I could, but I am not here to define my \"woodsman\" knowledge to the forum.

Heck, usually the one I am the one who is making threads again alternate methods to calling.

I will however stand up and say that you saying people who call are not woodsman and that it\'s a dying art is wrong.
I feel we are talking about two separate things here.

You know what I really hate? When someone either misunderstands me, or tries to put words in my mouth. I\'m going to quote what I said, and you explain to me where I said hunters who call are not woodsman?

My quote:

\"Yes Barry. It seems woodsmanship is a dying art.\"

Pete,

You are posting on a culturally diverse site with many different group dynamics.

Someone is always going to not understand something.
I will tell you that I will never put words in your mouth.

This is why I brought it up and asked for you to elaborate on it.


Please review my original post

 

[iccyman001]

\"Alright..... I\'m tracking with everything, but the woodsman is a dying art comment.?

You lost me on that one Pete.\"



All I wanted was a response Pete. I didn\'t understand so I asked for your explanation.

It went in the complete opposite way I wanted this to go

 

[bowhunter]

I believe woodsmanship is seen less and less. Many hunters in the woods are weekend warriors trying to kill something. They are not hunting. They are not one with their surroundings. They will be back at the truck, if they even get far away, well before dark.

Most on this site are addicted to hunting and have a decent amount of woodsmanship. Some other sites not so.

I for one would have loved to live in a simpler life long ago off of the land.

 

[elky McElkerson]

i\'ll just focus on the original question.

when i first took this elk hunting thing up, i went to a seminar put on by Primus. some local guy, name escapes me now was giving the class. i\'ve seen this guy on hunt shows and everything. Ralph Ramos!!

he said you cant really define bad calling. he said he has heard actual elk choke a noise. just like how we occasionally get that dry mouth..or snot ball in the back of the throat that mess up our speech. in short, elk can mess up an elk noise.

experience is everything. i\'ll never be able to sniff an elk track and tell you if it is ready to rut or anything. i\'ll just keep going, and try to improve the skills i have in my wheel-house. for starters, i love my bugles to sound better..seriously a rusty gate hinge swinging in the wind sounds better than my bugle.

i\'m looking for that point where my skill set develops to a point AND crosses a path perfectly with pure luck...and WHAACK. ICCY, i am super impressed with your dedication..especially with your physical ability. i\'ve hunted where some \"elky looking\" pasture was just to high and far to investigate. screw that..

elk hunting is a culmination of many things. i\'d still take luck and a target rich woods.

 

[OldMan]

Dan...........I really don\'t want to argue about this. Lets do the quote thing again.

I said:

\"Yes Barry. It seems woodsmanship is a dying art.\"


You followed that with this post.

\"Alright..... I\'m tracking with everything, but the woodsman is a dying art comment.

You lost me on that one Pete.

I\'d like to hear how someone who is a caller doesn\'t make them a woodsman.\"


Please explain how I mentioned calling. My comment on woodsmanship being a dying art is just a general statement about woodsmanship. It has nothing at all to do with calling. You can be a great woodsman, and never hunt at all, so why would calling have anything to do with it? You seem to be mixing up my post with Barry\'s. He\'s the one who talked about woodsmanship and calling together.

 

[iccyman001]

Dan...........I really don\'t want to argue about this. Lets do the quote thing again.

I said:

\"Yes Barry. It seems woodsmanship is a dying art.\"


You followed that with this post.

\"Alright..... I\'m tracking with everything, but the woodsman is a dying art comment.

You lost me on that one Pete.

I\'d like to hear how someone who is a caller doesn\'t make them a woodsman.\"


Please explain how I mentioned calling. My comment on woodsmanship being a dying art is just a general statement about woodsmanship. It has nothing at all to do with calling. You can be a great woodsman, and never hunt at all, so why would calling have anything to do with it? You seem to be mixing up my post with Barry\'s. He\'s the one who talked about woodsmanship and calling together.

Perhaps I did mix it all up Pete or did misinterpret it.
The difference was when I asked for you to explain it and when you immediately got upset thinking I was trying to speak for you.

My intent for being on the site is to learn.
My JOB on this site it to promote posting, education and fun.

Not bicker with you or offend anyone.

 

[OldMan]

Well, you did say more than once that I said a caller can\'t be a good woodsman too. I hope you admit I didn\'t say that now. So, I don\'t feel I was wrong is saying you put words in my mouth. I don\'t mind being jumped on if I said something someone doesn\'t like, but when I didn\'t say it, I find it hard to let go. As a matter of fact I said calling is a part of being a woodsman. Did you see it?

Anyway, no big deal anymore.

 

[Olympushunt]

Wow....a full week and half back and getting into it with one of the nicest, most decent guys on the board AND a new sponsor (at least busting his chops anyhow). Niiiiiiiiiiiiice. :crazy: Chilllllllll

 

[otcWill]

That\'s what I was thinking. The only few threads to have ever generated any drama on this site have one handle in common....

 

[OldMan]

This hardly fair. I\'ll explain why. dan called me out for saying something I didn\'t say. What happens if I don\'t try and straighten it out is guys will just believe I said it. So, in the future they see my name, and think.......he said elk callers have no woodsmanship. That\'s all they\'ll remember, and that\'s how I get a false rep for saying something I never said, and in fact, said the opposite. Then someone like you two will come along, and blame me for starting trouble. That adds to my rep when all i\'m trying to do is get the truth straight.

I get so fed up with forums, and guys who can\'t understand what\'s being said. So quick to jump to conclusions, and lay blame on the wrong person.

I don\'t have any questions about hunting. I come to forums to answer questions, and be helpful. Why it gets thrown back in my face I don\'t understand? I\'m tired. Too tired to battle it anymore.

 

[elky McElkerson]

to be fair, the first elk i called in and killed i used a hoochie mama. hahaha

and i was so damn nervous and full of nervous energy..i was squeezing that thing like i was trying to inflate a lifeboat. i must have sounded goofy as hell. my brother almost threw a rock at me. to shut me up.

that elk died nicely anyways. luck..

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Thanks elky and others for getting this thread back on track.

Dan\'s question was \"Is bad calling still better than no calling?\". My 2-cents.....

Elk do make weird sounds but they don\'t make them repeatedly. Quality of sounds, call timing, and how educated the elk is are all factors that can play a major role in a successful call in.

Calling can be a tool that helps you get a better/faster end results. Just like practicing with your bow. Sure, you can practice a couple times and then fling arrows until you hit the \"right\" spot. But if you perfect your shooting, the first shot is usually the last of the season.

If your a bad caller, you will drive more elk away than you call in. I feel if any hunter wants to use calling as a tool, they should at least learn the base foundation of all elk calling(mew, nervous bark, and spike squeal).

So my answer, if you cant make at least a decent mew then do not call. You will have a better chance if you use a different hunting style.

 

[Jaquomo]

A bad caller can make great elk sounds, but not know how, when or where to call elk. These are usually the \"educators\" of elk. A good caller can make weird sounds that sound sort of elky and call in elk regularly. Good calling is less about imitating the pure sound and more about creating and selling an illusion.

People who aren\'t good at this should keep their calls in their pockets and hunt in different ways.

Where I hunt now there are a lot of people who call badly with great elk calls. They are mostly educators. Of all the bulls I called in last season, only two made any sound at all. The others all snuck in silently, being very cautious.

 

[WW]

Man! This thing got side tracked in a hurry! For a minute there I thought I was on Archery Talk instead of Elkmentors. Guess that\'s why you don\'t see me post anywhere very much.

But let me get back to the original question. Elk can make some pretty bad sounds themselves. So even bad calls can work sometimes. Notice I said bad calls, not bad calling. It\'s not so much the sound itself, but the (how, why, where, when, and how often) you make those bad sounds that makes the difference.

When I hear ( bad calling ), I\'m not wasting my time coming searching for you. I\'m sure most elk probably feel the same way.