Max Shot Distance

[cohunter14]

Another valid point Cliff. So does this become more about Kinetic Energy then?

The same article brings up some good points regarding Kinetic Energy. Again, the site is http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_selection_guide_chapter_5.htm.

A few quotes from this page:
\"According to Easton\'s field chart, the amount of KE you\'ll need varies by the species you intend to hunt. Obviously, the larger the game, the more KE you\'ll need. And regardless of the power of your bow, you\'ll still need to land your shots in the boilermaker. If you hit an animal in the shoulder, all bets are off. But assuming you do your part, Easton\'s recommendations gives us a place to start. Of course, these recommendations aren\'t absolutes, nor are they guarantees of success.

KINETIC ENERGY
Hunting Usage
< 25 ft. lbs.
Small Game (rabbit, groundhog, etc.)
25-41 ft. lbs.
Medium Game (deer, antelope, etc.)
42-65 ft. lbs.
Large Game (elk, black bear, wild boar, etc.)
> 65 ft. lbs.

Kinetic energy of an arrow can be found by using the formula KE=(mv?)/450,240 where m is the mass of the arrow in grains and v is the velocity of the arrow in fps. The 450,240 just sorts out all the units and converts things from fps & grains to ft-lbs.\"

 

[cohunter14]

What\'s weird about this theory is that these numbers seem very high. Let\'s take Bill\'s example of a bow shooting an arrow at roughly 250 FPS. And let\'s just take a guess that the arrow weighs roughly 400 grains.

KE=400(250*250)/450,240

This means that the Kinetic Energy of that arrow right where it leaves the bow is 55.53 ft/lbs. According to Easton, that isn\'t enough to shoot an elk. But I\'m guessing Bill would beg to differ!

 

[Jason Balazs]

However, if you can do it consistently and have enough kinetic energy, then make it happen.

:upthumb: Agreed. Ethics is up to the person shooting and no one else. That\'s amazing that you are that skilled with a bow Jason. What\'s the longest you have ever shot an animal with a bow?

the farther I have ever shot anything with a bow is 118 yards. A buck that was bedded and very calm. The conditions were perfect and he died ten feet from his bed. He jumped up and took two jumps, then fell over.

 

[Jason Balazs]

However, if you can do it consistently and have enough kinetic energy, then make it happen.

:upthumb: Agreed. Ethics is up to the person shooting and no one else. That\'s amazing that you are that skilled with a bow Jason. What\'s the longest you have ever shot an animal with a bow?

And another question is what kind of penetration do you get at long distances?

Here is a video I put together for Victory. I was shooting at 90 yards and chose different spots on the target. Still a ton of penetration on the most compressed area (the bottom).
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_x01o3wUWU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

 

[cnelk]

Early 2013 I shot my bow thru at chrono at 0yds and 40yds

Here is that data:

Equipment:
Bow
2013 PSE Drive
57#

Arrows
GoldTip Hunter XT 55/75
27.5\"

360gr - 270fps - 58.29lb of KE

385gr - 261fps - 58.25lb of KE

400gr - 256fps - 58.22lb of KE

425gr - 250fps - 59lb of KE

445gr - 245fps - 59.33lb of KE

At 40 yds these were the results thru the chrono

360gr - 234fps - 43.78# KE

445gr - 213fps - 44.84# KE

 

[cohunter14]

Great info guys. I enjoyed the video Jason, that\'s pretty impressive. And congrats on the shot on the buck, that is impressive for sure! :clap:

 

[WW]

Thanks for posting all the numbers guys. Also, the video was nice even if I would never be able to shoot that far. :shock:

 

[mtnmutt]

On Target (OT2) Pinwheel Software, Software for Archers (SFA) version. If you care to see your Arrow Ballistics, OT2 has a 7 day free trial period for any of the 3 versions. Only the SFA has the Arrow Ballistic. I got the software to make sight tapes.

On the calibration tab of OT2, I entered my Lat and Alt for the gravity value. I used my house location and not my hunting spot. I have not played with the Gravity Value yet.

My max hunting distances: 25 yds broadside and 20 yards quartering away.

Below you will see why I choose those max distances. I only practice out to 55 yards because of the limitations of my slider/sight housing/fletching clearance.

51DW, 24DL, 398 gr arrow, 217 fps (chrony at 3 feet).
40 yd POI: 204 fps, 0.5694 seconds, 1.39 wind drift (5 mph wind), 37.06 k/e, 0.3621 momentum.
Arrow\'s trajectory high point is at 21 yards & 13.65\" high. Definitely, not a flat trajectory for a 40 yd POI.

[attachment=0]<!-- ia0 -->Jewel51lb398gr40ydPOI.PNG<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment]

 

[cohunter14]

Great info Patricia! I have two questions for you:

1) Why did you choose 25 yards as a max? Was it based on the high point of the arrow? I assume the high point is pretty similar for most people, so just curious.

2) What affects do you see with altitude regarding the amount of drop? I have never thought about this, but it made me wonder if you need to adjust pins on your sight if you go from 5,000 feet to, say 10,000 feet.

 

[mtnmutt]

Great info Patricia! I have two questions for you:

1) Why did you choose 25 yards as a max? Was it based on the high point of the arrow? I assume the high point is pretty similar for most people, so just curious.

I have good groupings at the outdoor 3D out to 30 yards in all weather conditions with my current bow. >30 yards, my groupings open up a bit, especially when kneeling.

If I tried a side stab, my unbalanced bow (28\" ATA), which is prone to torquing, would likely be better at longer distances. I did not have the same issues with my better balanced old RH Martin Leopard. I am looking at buying a new bow with a longer ATA (30\"). Shorter brace heights are also a little harder to shoot down range. I did not know all this when I bought the Mathews Jewel in 2012. The Jewel doesn\'t balance well with using an open loose grip and only a front stab.

My GMU is mostly medium to dense forest. 30 yards POI, my arrow trajectory highest point of 6.74\" is reached at 17 yds. If I am standing, 90-100% chance arrow will hit a branch. If I am kneeling, my chances would be better for a clear shot. POI >35 yards, the arrow trajectory\'s high point gets a lot higher. Couple this with my low momentum & K/E, 25 yd max hunting distance is reasonable.

Each individual appears to factor in their abilities, equipment, conditions and animal\'s awareness of hunter\'s presence.

I practice shooting in the rain, wind and sometimes hail. I shoot year round outside. I need to shoot at least once a week to stay fresh. I keep a logbook of my shooting.

As deertick mentioned, there are days that I am way off my game. Other days, I am fantastic at longer distances. Today, the day after SB50, I could not hit the side of a barn.

I assume the high point is pretty similar for most people, so just curious.

Unfortunately, no.

My extreme arrow trajectory high point is due to my slow 217 fps. You long armed (DL) speed demons (DW & high IBO) have a flatter trajectory. Yes, I am jealous of you :evil:

Scenario:
POI 34 yards (animal)
My estimated range: 30 yards
Due to my misjudged range by 4 yards and 217 fps, my arrow will \"hit\" 4.74\" low, ie, I may clip the underside of a mule deer for this misjudged distance.

My estimating is pretty good out to 30 yards. I practice range estimation on walks and hikes while carrying my range finder. I practice on outdoor 3D in spring & summer. If cold calling or ambush, I pre-range trees and memorize their distances.

With my current abilities, bow and terrain; 25 yard max distance is very good. Most elk and deer I have encountered were 5 to 22 yards away. Only one 6x6 bull was at 35 yards. Plus, a couple herds that were 200-400 yard away, but the wind did not help for a stalk. If I hunted more open terrain, you bet I would already own a longer ATA bow or have a side stab on my Jewel.

2) What affects do you see with altitude regarding the amount of drop? I have never thought about this, but it made me wonder if you need to adjust pins on your sight if you go from 5,000 feet to, say 10,000 feet.

I crunched the Gravity Value using 6K & 11K and it doesn\'t look like much of factor at all. I do not know how the Gravity Value is used in the OT2 trajectory formulas. Trajectory chart\'s drop did not indicate a difference between 6K & 11K, however, I may be doing something wrong.

[attachment=1]<!-- ia1 -->Lat39_6000Alt.PNG<!-- ia1 -->[/attachment]
[attachment=0]<!-- ia0 -->Lat39_11000Alt.PNG<!-- ia0 -->[/attachment]