Newbie - Last Year

[JohnFitzgerald]

Last year was my first year elk hunting. :upthumb: I watched a bunch of elk hunting DVD\'s before I left and was very excited to try out my new brand X bugle because the hunters on those DVDs made it look really easy to call in bulls. On the first day of the hunt I bugled and got a bull to answer. We went back and forth, for about 20 minutes, then the bull went silent. This type of interaction repeated several times throughout the week. As soon as I\'d get a response I\'d get setup and ready but no bull came in. What did I do wrong?

 

[iccyman001]

Newbie,

This may not have always been the case, but something these elk are looking for is the other elk.
These bulls may have been moving closer and closer every time, but he entered that \"zone\" where he should have either seen, smelt, or \"felt\" another bull present.

My guess is they started moving in towards you, hung up, and when they didn\'t see anything around, they left...

 

[flystrait]

How far away were you when this would happen? What type of calls are you using? Where was the bull from you (up, down side hill)? What time of day was this? Need more details. With what you provided I would never go back and fourth for 20 minutes with out some plan of action. Oh and what time of year was this? Just need a few more details.

 

[cnelk]

Well obviously the \'Newbie\' didnt read the many posts on here [BackTrakOutdoors] that cover this situation in detail.

Top 3 Newbie Mistakes:

1- Newbies are typically too timid once they hear a bull bugle. Newbie didnt close the distance at all, or even move

2- Newbie probably set up in place that was too open. Got busted. Bull was probably in cover

3- Newbie didnt watch the wind

 

[Swede]

John, I am surprised you got any answer. It did not help that your were beating your grunt tube against that pine and then looking through it, like it was a spy glass. Trying to use it for a hearing aid did not work either did it? If you read the instructions, that came with it, you would know how, you were supposed to blew into it, and not just cough three or four times. Just hang around this forum buddy, and pick up on what some of the experienced hunters are telling you, you will get much better.

 

[OldMan]

Why do you want to kill those innocent elk?

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

I chose later season because I hear the bulls are just love crazed during this time. The bulls were 150 - 250 yards away I think and most bugled really early in the morning. We hunted them from the downhill side because we wanted the thermals in our favor.

My Brand X bugle has the latex that goes over the mouth piece. The low to high sound only took me a few days to learn and it drives the bulls crazy. They always answered back so I just stayed with that. I bought a bite-n-blow cow call but didn\'t want to use it. If the bugle was working, why switch ...right?

As soon as I got a response, I\'d stop and get setup. So the bulls didn\'t hear me or see me. Maybe I just need to bugle more so I really anger them! :upthumb:

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Well obviously the \'Newbie\' didnt read the many posts on here [BackTrakOutdoors] that cover this situation in detail.

Top 3 Newbie Mistakes:

1- Newbies are typically too timid once they hear a bull bugle. Newbie didnt close the distance at all, or even move

2- Newbie probably set up in place that was too open. Got busted. Bull was probably in cover

3- Newbie didnt watch the wind

So stay in cover but bugle my way in. Put the pressure in him! All bulls that bugle must be protecting their herd and are looking for a fight. Those are the bulls I want to hunt! Just wondering why in those videos the bulls came to fight the caller but wouldn\'t for me. Maybe I sounded too tough! :train:

Swede and Pete - no fair picking on the newbie! . FYI, I just talk to a newbie a few days ago and most of this is his words. I\'m filling in a little but not much!

 

[flystrait]

Swede: Nothing wrong beating the tree with your grunt tube it can actually work. As using it for a hearing aid that works too sounds like hunting in the coast range!

Still: Aint we all heer to lrn woh to kil elc!

John: Chasing bulls up hill to bed is usually a loose loose prop. Never continue calling when you are that far off. Late season is a good time to hunt during archery season but more than likely they are following the cows during this time of the year. figure out where they are bedding get above them and get in close before calling to them in their bedroom, throw the bugle away and use a cow call once in tight.Once you call move forward 10-20 yards and get ready he will answer and give his location away and wait for him trying to circle you more than likely if this happens it will be a satellite bull but for your first time that is a great bull. This is my recommendation it\'s not my personnel approach but is a good start for a new elk hunter do not be afraid of being aggressive as long as the wind is good and you know where they are at.

After your first year practice your calling and use a reed with a tube practice and practice some more. There are many good threads on here pertaining to calls and calling to elk. Research all you can and keep asking questions. Everyone wants to be part of the so called 10% club bud nine of you won\'t. Not trying to be harsh but most guys on here that know what they are talking about have spent years learning long before the internet that has helped so many, and has sent just as many down the wrong path. Be mindful of the advice you read. Just my 2cents

 

[Swede]

You guys are right of coarse. Neither I nor anyone here would subject a real newbie to abuse. And there are no dumb questions.

Not trying to be harsh but most guys on here that know what they are talking about have spent years learning long before the internet that has helped so many, and has sent just as many down the wrong path. Be mindful of the advice you read. Just my 2cents

The quote I have here makes the point I am pleased to get to now. Newbies often are looking for a quick recipe for success. In the process they are vulnerable to bad advise, or advise taken out of context or not applicable to their situation. There are many gurus that talk a good line, but the newbie does not know what will not work in their situation. Some of the gurus don\'t know either. At least on BTO you will get advise you can take with you to the field. It might not put you instantly in the 10% club, but you will be on the advanced learning curve.
In Newbie John\'s case sounding off a call hardly ever draws in distant bulls. There are some great threads on this forum to suggest tactics that can be used in different situations.

 

[Bob Frapples]

......All bulls that bugle must be protecting their herd and are looking for a fight. Those are the bulls I want to hunt!

I found this not to be a true statement, or did I mis read somthing, siting on a deer stand elk hunting with you guys is killing my eyesight :angle: . I eased up on a younger vocal bull out about 80 yards in an opening, problem was I didnt see his real big brother about 30 yrds in front of me through the tree, no cows just two bulls and thundering hooves shortly thereafter.

Last year was my first run at elk hunting as well and mostly I had similar results. If I heard a nearby bugle Id go at him silently and directly cutting the distance as fast as I dared watching the wind, working the upcoming cover to my atvantage. Being able to judge their distance from me turned out to be my biggest obsticle, I\'d set up too far away and try or I\'d get busted by thinking he was further way, or prehaps a satelite caught me. While I was solo Id call and immediately move up 20-30 yards.

If it was a quiet morning I crack off a bugle every 15 min or so until I got a response then do the above. I felt pretty confident with my calling but would get nervous about it when the distance got close. This is something that Ive got to master, get it right the first time.

 

[Russel Reed]

Spray yourself from head to toe with cow elk in estrus urine and circle up wind so he can get a good whiff of you. Then give out a cow in heat, come on big boy call and he will come running to you. Works every time!

 

[Swede]

Craig wrote that beating a grunt tube on a tree and using a grunt tube as a hearing aid works. While I agree to a point, that illustrates too where people get a lot of strange ideas about hunting elk. People have got elk to respond to a screeching pickup truck door, and farting. Whatever you do needs to be well planned and thought out.
My advise for newbies is to avoid odd techniques for calling. Just because it happened once does not make it a tool to plan on. Stick with a few basic calls and work them until you know how to be most effective. Add more tricks as you advance.

 

[cnelk]

Spray yourself from head to toe with cow elk in estrus urine and circle up wind so he can get a good whiff of you. Then give out a cow in heat, come on big boy call and he will come running to you. Works every time!

Russel
Cmon man. We know better, and so do you

 

[Russel Reed]

Whats the matter cnelk, Can\'t take a little humor? :wtf:

 

[iccyman001]

Whats the matter cnelk, Can\'t take a little humor? :wtf:

Maybe we can talk about lip bawls next.
I know you\'re a fan of that.

 

[cnelk]

Whats the matter cnelk, Can\'t take a little humor? :wtf:

I can take it, just like I can give it

 

[Swede]

How does a newbie know the difference between good and bad advise? That has been a question on my mind for several days now since this thread was started. I have over 50 years of hunting experience, and sometimes my Swede-O-Meter, used for detecting bogus information, lights up, but I am less than positive just what is wrong. I wouldn\'t follow the advise, but I only toy with the idea of saying anything.
Case in point. Wapiti (Travis) said he uses only one diaphragm for all of his calls. I don\'t question that, but his contention that he trains the elk to recognize and accept that call, sends my Swede-O-Meter light into ultra high rate pulsing. Every time I have educated an elk, bad things have happened. The danger of being seen or smelled before you pull off a false education, for the elk in an area, would cause me to leave an area alone and not educate elk. If the wind shifts or the bull comes in close enough to see you, or see where you should be, it\'s game over. If I did educate one, I would want another diaphragm so I could get another chance.
Understand, I am a happy Swede and am not accusing Travis of not being sincere. Maybe it works for him. Personally everything I have experienced tells me to not try the one diaphragm trick.
Anyway we at BTO try to keep things right, and valuable for everyone, especially newbies. Still I wonder, how does a newbie know what is right and what is not.

 

[Glacier Country]

How does a newbie know the difference between good and bad advise? That has been a question on my mind for several days now since this thread was started. I have over 50 years of hunting experience, and sometimes my Swede-O-Meter, used for detecting bogus information, lights up, but I am less than positive just what is wrong. I wouldn\'t follow the advise, but I only toy with the idea of saying anything.
Case in point. Wapiti (Travis) said he uses only one diaphragm for all of his calls. I don\'t question that, but his contention that he trains the elk to recognize and accept that call, sends my Swede-O-Meter light into ultra high rate pulsing. Every time I have educated an elk, bad things have happened. The danger of being seen or smelled before you pull off a false education, for the elk in an area, would cause me to leave an area alone and not educate elk. If the wind shifts or the bull comes in close enough to see you, or see where you should be, it\'s game over. If I did educate one, I would want another diaphragm so I could get another chance.
Understand, I am a happy Swede and am not accusing Travis of not being sincere. Maybe it works for him. Personally everything I have experienced tells me to not try the one diaphragm trick.
Anyway we at BTO try to keep things right, and valuable for everyone, especially newbies. Still I wonder, how does a newbie know what is right and what is not.

Swede you must have read my mind!! :roll: :mock: :lol: my kids said I should start using emoji\'s - This seems like a good time... Man Emoji\'s are fun!
You do not want to educate the elk. IMO Your best chance to take an elk is the very first time you call them in. If you mess up on them the 1st time it seem they are a lot more gun shy so to speak.With a different sounding call you at least have a fighting chance at another callin! I always have several different sounding calls in my bag of tricks. I have called in numerous bulls with a different call after blowing it the first time.
For example the bull my wife shot in 2013.See post (Real Raking sequence with results) When you guys go fishing do you take a tackle box or just one lure? Calls are one of the least expensive components of a hunt ...yet they can be one of the most important components to the success of the hunt. At least the way I hunt they are integral to success. :thewave:
Troy glaciercountryhuntingcalls.com

 

[Swede]

Maybe someone can help me a little here. I know there may be reasons some here think I am beyond help, but entertain me anyway.
I have noticed that elk don\'t all respond to the same call. I hear and read about silent days, but I have seen times when a different call gets a bull to respond. Sometimes a bull pays no attention to one call, but gets fired up with another. It causes me to doubt the theory of no call days. What do you think? To me it is just another reason to have a backup call.