Notes from Nate Zelinsky\'s Seminare at 2015 ISE

Baby Huey

New member
Apr 17, 2014
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I went up by myself on Friday afternoon to the International Sportsmans Expo in Denver last week. I attended Nate Zelinsky\'s Aggressive Elk seminar. Nate is a CO native and has taken 16 bulls in 17 seasons primarily in OTC units in CO. He is a professional fisherman and fishing guide (owner of Tightline Outdoors), but his true passion is elk hunting.

Although the title of the seminar would lead one to beleive that his talk would be about running, gunning, bugling aggressively to hunt elk, it was more of being aggressive in your scouting to be successful in your hunting.

He started out by telling people to learn the spot they are going to hunt. The biggest advantage is to know every nook and cranny of the unit you are hunting. Now that is easy to write down, but to actually do that you really need to scout that unit and put in the time to understand and have great knowledge of your hunting unit. Nate suggested a minimum of 60% scouting to 40% hunting, but the more scouting the better. He discussed ways to scout: 1. Boot leather in the area; 2. Maps/Google Earth; 3. Watch the climate; 4. Cameras; 5; Long Distance scouting. Nate spends over 100 days scouting, and will zero in on a few specific animals to hunt - more on that later.

1. The best way is to physically walk around your unit and get to know it.
2. Obviously everyone cannot physically get to your unit and explore, so some great tools are maps and programs like Google Earth (GE). Now I have done this for a while, but one tidbit that was a good suggestion was to find a wooded area near your home and get on GE and look at it from different angles on the computer. Then go to that place and see how what you actually see coorelates to what you see on GE. What does a dark patch of trees tell you? What does an aspen stand look like? This type of analysis will help you look at GE with a little more understanding of what areas on GE will look like in the feild.
3. When you are physically at your site, watch the climate. Have a watch and take notes on what time of the day the thermals change on different areas/drainages. Where do you notice animals going during rain, sun, cloudy weather, windy times, etc.? Gain an understanding of the climate you are hunting to add to your toolbox of knowledge. This will help you understand the area you are going to hunt. Now Nate hunts mostly archery season, so this is what his seminar was geared towards (my opinion), but you can gain knowledge for later rifle hunts as well.
4. Cameras can be used to help determine timing. When do the elk come through? Which direction are they heading? When do they go to water? When do they feed? When do they get up to feed? These questions can be answered with the use of a camera. Analyze the times when you see elk on the cameras and try to determine what the elk are doing to pattern them. Nate will go deeper and then start to pattern each elk he sees on the camera, learning each ones timing patterns.
5. Long distance scouting. Primarily this is with a spotting scope looking over a vast area from a vantage point that lets you look for miles. This long range scouting will help you find elk in drainages, meadows, etc. during different parts of the day.

Now most of this is stuff is what a lot of us do already, but Nate then takes his scouting to the next level. This was the heart of his seminar - what are you going to do to take this information to the next level? Nate will actually then identify different bulls in his unit and by using the methods above he will start to pattern these bulls in August and into the hunting season. He will gather all information he has gained and really know each bulls daily routine. Bull A usually waters around 10pm at this water hole; or bull B always heads to his bedding area at this time and so on with each bull. The time invested in scouting to this level will help you harvest select animals.

I haven\'t scouted to that detail (learning a specific bulls pattern along with knowing every nook and cranny of your unit), and sometimes wonder if you can get to that level, but it is hard to discount a guy that has had success on bulls 16 out of 17 years. Then I started to think about Pete (Still Hunter) as he has been hunting his unit for years and Pete seems to have an exceptional knowledge of his area - to the point where Pete has posted it may be too easy to harvest an elk. There is something to be said about this advice and knowing that Pete has essentially employed this intimate knowledge of knowing your unit inside and out, in order to becoming a great hunter.

Nate said he was asked what are the units he hunts or what is the best unit to hunt. He says the best unit to hunt is the one you know the most.
 
Always good to discuss scouting.

Scouting (like hunting) can be nothing more than a waste of a day if you go at it without a plan. The flip side is true, though, too.

I\'m getting better at understanding the movement of elk in my area ... I doubt that I\'ll ever know that \"Bull A waters at this spot at 10 a.m.\" ... personally, I don\'t think elk are quite THAT predictable -- but what do I know?

Elk can be anywhere, of course, but I look at scouting as an elimination process ... putting higher-percentage places in relation to lower-percentage places and then further developing those concepts with relation to weather, season, timing, etc.
 
My take:
Like in many other aspects in life, what you get from something depends on what you put into it.
After reading the above notes, I can honestly say that my scouting time at least doubles if not triples my actual hunting time.

In all of my scouting, I have never determined that a specific elk was here at a specific time.
Maybe it\'s because my areas I scout are much larger that Mr Zelinsky\'s.
I really don\'t care if a certain elk frequents a spot because there are too many variables that would decrease that situation, like hunting pressure, weather, and other things beyond my control.

I would suggest that scouting be done to control things that won\'t change in a hurry like terrain, water flow, feed, and cover.
 
Great write up!
Here are some things we do and some more that we have started to do as well. I hunt different areas every year, I love the challenge of it.
1) Look for elk densities for specific units (bull cow ratio?s)

2) Look at harvest reports, again bull to cow and percentage of mature bulls killed, key point Bow vs Rifle. If there is a big discrepancy it could be couple of things. i.e if the rifle is higher than Bow by a large percentage I would look at as a late hunt wintering area and I would move on to look at another area since my weapon of choice is Bow.

3) GE most people do this at this point. I specifically look for main ridge lines the longer the better with finger?s off of them, I don?t care which direction they run as there will always be benches, shade, and water most of the time. I stay away from choppy ground because of the extra time it takes to cover ground. Find roads and access points.
4) Contact the local forest service and acquire the latest road, and ATV trail maps. Place a call to local Warden in charge of the unit/units be friendly tell him what type of hunt you are looking at doing and ask about the quality of animals for said area.

5) Find the local airstrip to the area and rent a plane for a scenic tour pretty reasonable cost. Fly the areas that you have selected bring your GPS mark way points as you fly over. Nothing like a personal bird?s eye perspective. It allows you to see all the roads or no roads, gates, camping areas etc. Get back home download your way points to GE and see how close you are to what you thought.

6) Boots on the ground to add to or eliminate said areas roughly a 3 day weekend and look for sign new and old. Rubs, crap, and tracks.

7) Hunting the unit. I am a run and gun guy we will use bugles in said areas to prompt a response if no response move on to other selected spots. Now spots can take anywhere from a ? day to a full day to determine if it?s worth hunting for us. Spots can be a couple miles apart or many depending on the area, we usually will have at least a half dozen spots to hunt as soon as we arrive to camp.
What has this done for us? It has allowed us to hunt new areas and have opportunities at mature bulls every year. Does knowing your area intimately help with your success absolutely, but if you like adventure or you are just looking for a new location these tools will help you be successful the first year IMO.

Craig
 
\"I really don\'t care if a certain elk frequents a spot because there are too many variables that would decrease that situation, like hunting pressure, weather, and other things beyond my control. \"

I\'m with Brad on this. I like to hunt for mature bulls, but the area I hunt gets hammered. I spend a ton of time on GE and Bing maps, but very little time in the field except for when I am actually hunting. I would love to be able to target a specific bull, but it seems like they have a pattern for maybe the first day and then they are going where ever they will be left alone.

I might catch some flack here but I think boots on the ground is way over rated. It is a great way to confirm an area and to find sign, but I think it can also be a little bit of a liability. Guys get stuck in areas all the time because they are used to that spot. Maybe it was good or they find lots of sign but the area just doesn\'t produce anymore. That is why I love GE and spend most of my efforts learning how the features in an area relate to each other. When you learn the overall layout of an area the travel corridors, feeding and bedding areas and wind currents make a lot more sense. I\'m not saying there is no use in actually walking the land, I just prefer to do so while I\'m hunting.
 
\"AndyJ\" said:
I might catch some flack here but I think boots on the ground is way over rated. It is a great way to confirm an area and to find sign, but I think it can also be a little bit of a liability. Guys get stuck in areas all the time because they are used to that spot. Maybe it was good or they find lots of sign but the area just doesn\'t produce anymore. That is why I love GE and spend most of my efforts learning how the features in an area relate to each other. When you learn the overall layout of an area the travel corridors, feeding and bedding areas and wind currents make a lot more sense. I\'m not saying there is no use in actually walking the land, I just prefer to do so while I\'m hunting.


I have a very photogenic mind. I do a fair amount of scouting in the place that I whitetail hunt in Oklahoma. I did a lot of walking over the summer, just to learn the area. I didn\'t cover it all, but I got a good understanding.
Next I ran cameras. I moved a few cameras in different areas to check inventories, and then picked my initial stands.
I hunted my spots a little during the season, but I decided to check out new areas.

I started still hunting through areas and this is where I found my boots on the ground paid off.
I would find new areas, new sign, and be walking around. Then bam, I would walk a few more steps and catch something that looks familiar.
It would be a spot that I had seen while I was out scouting during the summer. This was nice for me because then I was able to connect the stuff that I found before with the new stuff that I found. Then formulate ways for it to benefit me. This is how I expanded my hunting areas and was able to shoot two nice bucks.

I firmly agree with your statement \"When you learn the overall layout of an area the travel corridors, feeding and bedding areas and wind currents make a lot more sense.\" That is how I normally start my scouting before I go into these areas.

But I also use what you said for when I am doing areas that I have no time to scout and need to make something happen.


You mentioned \"Guys get stuck in areas all the time because they are used to that spot.\" To me I think people just get stubborn and always play the what if game. \"What if I don\'t hunt the stand today, he may come.\" I had found some great spots over the summer, but if I played the what if game or was stubborn and didn\'t move, I would have never shot my mature deer.



You should not catch any flack at all for your post. This is how we open up our convos and learn from each other.
 
My only beef with Nate is that on Terry Wickstrom\'s radio show in September he said you should aim \"4-5 inches behind the crease\" on a broadside elk. I told Terry that was not good advice for new elk hunters, since a little pull or a slightly turned elk would put the shot into the guts. He said he would talk to Nate about it, but that he was sure Nate was referring to a \"quartering-to shot\".

Which would be even worse. But I heard the show and he definitely said \"broadside\".

As far as boots on the ground, aside from finding wallows and waterholes and learning the overall terrain, I tend to agree with Andy that it is overrated. I spent approximately 30 days on the ground in my new area last spring and summer (I\'m retired, and live in my new elk area). But when the season started I had to start over because of where I found hunting pressure. Even the wallows I found weren\'t good after the first few days because guys spooked the herds out of the bedding areas by hunting mid-day (grinding my teeth...)

Only one of the spots I scouted on the ground in the summer paid off, but while I was working the bull four other bowhunters converged on him from different directions. There were never any elk in that spot after that night. Everywhere else I found elk were found during the season, by putting together the puzzles based on hunter pressure and direction, and the volumes of aerial maps I\'d printed out ahead of time from Bing.
 
Let me tell you a thing or two that have learned about boots on the ground and scouting. It the ultimate way to find elk. GE and maps may show you some of the likely places to look. But shoe leather will end up being the icing on the cake.

However, too much of it will do more harm than good. Let me explain! During the rifle seasons, all the guys show up to set up camp and scout out the territory. Some come as early as a week or so before the season. As soon as camp is set up, they all figure it is time to scout. Now I\'m not talking about 1 or 2 guys here. I\'m talking close to or maybe even more than 100 or so in some of the OTC units in Colorado. After scouting around for several days by that many hunters, it is no wonder they all wonder where the elk are on opening day. Hey, elk aren\'t stupid!!! What had been a security area for them all summer long, has just been invaded by a bunch of dudes and duds.

Personally, I do most if not all of my scouting during the first 2-4 days of the archery season. I never disturb known bedding areas. I never hunt these areas unless it is a last ditch effort to fill a tag the last day or so of the season.

Someone brought up hunting pressure in another post. Well, scouting pressure causes the same problems. Where the elk were earlier is where they aren\'t now! Sometimes figuring out where the bulk of the hunting pressure is where you shouldn\'t be.

Same goes for ranching pressure. Learning the pasturing rotation can be helpful. But sheep herders don\'t have calenders. And if they can get by with a few extra days of grazing, they will. If you can talk to the rancher, he will usually let you know when he will be moving his herd or flock off the mountain. That sort of information is golden.

I have never heard of this Nate Zelinsky or his seminars. But I have been to bunch of others by well known guys. His 60% scouting and 40% hunting is so far fetched that I don\'t think I would ever be interested in attending one of his seminars. Instead, I would be more inclined to use a 20/80 or even a 10/90 approach.
 
\"Russel Reed\" said:
Let me tell you a thing or two that have learned about boots on the ground and scouting. It the ultimate way to find elk. GE and maps may show you some of the likely places to look. But shoe leather will end up being the icing on the cake.

However, too much of it will do more harm than good. Let me explain! During the rifle seasons, all the guys show up to set up camp and scout out the territory. Some come as early as a week or so before the season. As soon as camp is set up, they all figure it is time to scout. Now I\'m not talking about 1 or 2 guys here. I\'m talking close to or maybe even more than 100 or so in some of the OTC units in Colorado. After scouting around for several days by that many hunters, it is no wonder they all wonder where the elk are on opening day. Hey, elk aren\'t stupid!!! What had been a security area for them all summer long, has just been invaded by a bunch of dudes and duds.

Personally, I do most if not all of my scouting during the first 2-4 days of the archery season. I never disturb known bedding areas. I never hunt these areas unless it is a last ditch effort to fill a tag the last day or so of the season. Leave these places alone and usually the elk will hang around for a long time. Bust them out and they will be gone for a long time. So would you rather be able to hunt the same area an know elk are their? Or would you rather bust them out and spend several days trying to relocate them? For the out od state guys, this could mean an entire hunt up in smoke.

Someone brought up hunting pressure in another post. Well, scouting pressure causes the same problems. Where the elk were earlier is where they aren\'t now! Sometimes figuring out where the bulk of the hunting pressure is where you shouldn\'t be.

Same goes for ranching pressure. Learning the pasturing rotation can be helpful. But sheep herders don\'t have calenders. And if they can get by with a few extra days of grazing, they will. If you can talk to the rancher, he will usually let you know when he will be moving his herd or flock off the mountain. That sort of information is golden.

I have never heard of this Nate Zelinsky or his seminars. But I have been to bunch of others by well known guys. His 60% scouting and 40% hunting is so far fetched that I don\'t think I would ever be interested in attending one of his seminars. Instead, I would be more inclined to use a 20/80 or even a 10/90 approach.
 
Sorry about the double post. Just wanted to edit in a little more about the possibilities of hunting bedding areas.
 
I agree with you Russ. I have observed much of the same thing where I hunt. I have not seem a problem with one or two hunters scouting in June or July. Even early August is ok. Pressure is not being bumped by just one hiker. Trucks, camps, hikers/hunters invading an area is what spooks them away. An area gets to the point of overload. On the last two days before the opening of the season I see truck after truck drive past my camp. They are pulling trailers and are loaded with ATVs. Sometimes it looks like a convoy. When I arrive five days early to set up stands and make camp, there are hunters already in the area. It is no wonder given the cattle numbers too, the elk move over to the ranch to seek sanctuary.
 
Interesting thread, and the responses from some of you. Of course you all know that boots on the ground is everything for me. It\'s been a successful way to scout for me over the decades, and I see no reason to change.

I\'ve found out that no matter how hard I look at GE. I can\'t see any elk.
 
I would be more inclined to use a 20/80 or even a 10/90 approach.

I think that\'s a pretty decent approach Russ. For me, boots on the ground is more of a way to answer questions from GE or Bing. To an extent I don\'t think a boots on the ground approach is a bad thing, but I think it important to remember the saying, \"Hunt where the elk are, not where they were\".
 
In my area I think the elk are pretty predictable. I look for either way back spots or potentially overlooked spots. In particular I try to predict what hunters are doing and where an elk could go unnoticed. 99% of the time I find elk. I have found several good areas just by driving the road and parking at the farthest point from other cars. In the unit I hunt, the elk are almost always in the spots that no one else is hunting. It is as simple as that. Elk can deal with marginal food, water and shelter as long as they are not being bothered by people.

To illustrate my point, when I go hunting, I rarely have my spot picked out beforehand. I know where I want to be, but I have a lot of spots to choose from and I stop and hunt where the pressure is lowest. Sometimes I\'ll just stop at a random spot that just seems like it has been left alone and most of the time, I find elk.
 
I certainly agree with hunting where other hunters are someplace else. I\'m actually pretty anal about that.

What method of hunting do you use?
 
What method of hunting do you use?

I hunt almost entirely with a bow, but I go with a rifle with a list b cow tag every few years.

This is a little off topic, but I think hunting the same general area year after year can be very important to success. Your hunting becomes boots on the ground scouting for the next year and you are scouting when the elk are pressured. I do find pressured elk tend to hide in the same spots year after year. A hunter will never figure that out if he constantly moves. Most importantly you aren\'t just figuring out what the elk are doing, you are figuring out what hunters are doing. Hunters dictate elk movement, plain and simple. I know of several areas where a guy scouting in the summer would think he struck gold only to show up opening morning and find around 10 hunting camps and no elk for a mile.
 
You\'re pretty new to the forum, and probably haven\'t read my past posts. I\'m the ultimate example of someone who stays in one unit. I\'ve hunted the same unit for 60 years. I can honestly say I know it pretty good. ;)

I scout at least 200 days a year at a minimum since retiring.
 
You\'re pretty new to the forum, and probably haven\'t read my past posts. I\'m the ultimate example of someone who stays in one unit. I\'ve hunted the same unit for 60 years. I can honestly say I know it pretty good.

I had that feeling. That statement was not directed at you. It was more of a general statement to whoever may find it useful. I do know a lot of guys that basically unit hop every year hoping that one day they will find some completely hidden gem when in reality they just didn\'t give a unit the time to become great.
 
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