Open reed, external reed, bite reeds, diaphragms, etc...

[iccyman001]

My other thread was taking a turn for the wrong direction, so I deleted it to start this.
I want to take a different approach at this, for educational purposes.

What is your call preference of choice and why? I believe we had a lot of great things mentioned in the other threads, but now I want to capture it in a different way.

We have world champion callers, callers with 30+ years experience, not your average joe callers, and wannabes (me :lol: )
So everyone will have a different opinion.


SO for this thread, I would really appreciate it if you started your post with how long you have been calling or any type of credentials you may have (I.E world champion, call maker, etc) Then hit me with your knowledge.





So I will start.
Last year was my first year elk hunting ever and I did attempt some calling.

My weapon of choice was a bite reed cow call. The reason that I chose to use that was for a few reasons.

1) I have never used a diaphragm before, so it was intimidating.
2) I was told bite reeds were simple to use
3) I wanted something different. When I say different, I was referring to my call being custom. In my mind, as a noob, I figured people were all out using the same primos calls or that dang hoochie mamas. To me this was educating the elk to run AWAY from those calls and not to.

Anyways, I bought the bite reed and practiced it daily before the season started and practices different sequences that I came up with.


Travis (wapiti) mentioned in the other thread was the possibilities of open reeds/external reeds catching on bow strings.
One thing that I will say is that I put a lot of thought into my use of this call.
Just like any other piece of equipment that we use hunting, I played out all possibilities. So I made a conscious effort to always make sure that was tucked away before I shot.

It would be like me buying a new gun and not knowing where the safety is or practice raising my gun while disengaging my safety.

Luck being on my side, I sat in my tree stand cold calling after I heard a few bugles.
Low and behold, a spike elk comes in and I was able to tuck in my call and make a clean shot!



So I will state that these calls are on my good side right now and I plan to use it again.

However, I am intrigued on the diaphragm calls. I like the idea of being able to throw out different pitches, variations, and types of calls (cow/bugles calls) So I will buy a few here soon to dabble with, but I will take out my bite reed call again.

 

[Swede]

I have not done a lot of calling the last few years, But when I do, I like to have several different options in my arsenal. With different calls I can sound like several elk, or I can chose the call I believe best fits the situation.
I said on the other thread you mentioned, that I don\'t have a bite and blow bugle anymore, but I just remembered that I do. It is a little Sceerey. (sp.) I don\'t recall the last time it left camp, but it has its place. Lately that place has been in my tool box, but I have no objection to using it either. I am no elitist. If belching loudly would call elk in, I would just drink more soda pop.

 

[AndyJ]

I have been calling elk for 6 years and turkeys for at least 20 and I practice A LOT. If I had to pick one call to walk into the woods with it would be a double reed diaphragm for no other reason than I can do anything with it from soft mews to a nasty herd bull scream. With that said, I would never leave my external reed calls at home. For some reason they always seem to work when nothing else will.

 

[Swede]

I forgot to mention that I started calling in 1991. I had been aware of calls for many years, but never tried them. I too prefer a double reed diaphragm. I tried the Orange Enrager that comes from Glacier Country Hunting Calls, and really liked it. I found I got excellent range with it, and no sour notes.

 

[elkmtngear]

Been calling elk since 1995. My first call was a Sceery bite and blow type call...easy to use, but not very versatile. And we used a Power Bugle for bull sounds.

When the \"hyper-hot\" external reeds came out, it changed the game for us. I bought one made by Knight and Hale...and the first time my buddy answered a bull with it, I thought \"Oh God, shut up\"! That thing sounds like a duck! But lo and behold, the bull came on a string. We have called so many bulls in over the years using that call, and I still use it in certain situations. The main advantage of that external reed call is VOLUME! We have actually called bulls in with it from over a quarter mile away, and many times it works as a locator when bugles do not.

Currently I use an assortment of diaphragm calls; I prefer a triple reed for bull sounds, and a double or single reed for cow sounds. But the Knight and Hale external reed call hangs around my neck also. It has a place in my arsenal, regardless of what anyone says, because it has proven itself time and time again over the years. I\'m not out calling elk to be an elitist...I\'m there to fill my freezer. Nuff said!

 

[Tdiesel]

I prefer diaphrams and almost always have one in my mouth but I also carry an open reed call and not sure what it would qualify as, its COW TALK kinda a bite call I guess. As said sometimes the elk repond better to a different call I\'ll try any of them I\'m not to proud to only stick with one thing when another may be working. I practice with diaphrams more and I feel they sound better but sometimes the elk disagree so give them what they want.

 

[razorback]

I wore a lanyard with three external reed calls last year. I used them for cow sounds. I carried four diaphragms and bugle tube for bulls sounds. I have purchased some more calls for this fall. I think my diaphragms may have been a little thick and stretched too tight for cow sounds because I was never satisfied with the cow talk I got from the. Had I been I would have used them a lot more because of my turkey hunting background and that just comes natural to me. I hope to be able to use them more this year. I do think the externals have a louder sound and broadcaster better from what I noticed this fall. Kind of like a good crystal call verses a diaphragm in the turkey woods.

Calling elk is what draws me to elk hunting. Last year was my first year hunting and really had limited encounters to gain experience from unlike my early days turkey hunting. I do realize however to be an elk caller you have to know elk behaviour and be where a bull wants to go before any call is going to work. Just gotta learn that piece of it and I\'m a long ways from there!

 

[Guest]

Hi guys,

My name is Travis and I have been calling to elk for 30 years. The first year I failed miserably as I bought a reed before elk season thinking you just blown on it !! Well I was so wrong. I was on a two week camping hunt and I went the whole hunt and could not make a single peep on that stupid reed !! I put it in forward and backwards and flipped the darn thing over and still no sound !! I remember like it was yesterday. I was walking out of the bush into an opening and I was 14 so I was crying to myself that this stupid thing didn\'t work and I couldn\'t call in any elk and my hunt was over ! I was in a bad place so I took the reed and tossed in into the trees in disgust !

Well low and behold I tried again all the next summer and finally got some sounds. Then I heard Glenn Berry was coming to my town to do an elk calling seminar ! Well my world got a whole lot brighter after that and as it turned out his son Chad was coming into the airport by himself and I got to go pick him up !! I\'m picking up Glenn Berry\'s son and when I got back I got a hand shack from Glenn and we all enjoyed the seminar !!

Fast forward 20 years and I now have my own call company and am now doing seminars for others and I make darn sure these young guys get attention as they now look up to me as I did Glenn all those years ago !!

Now in that last thread I stated harshly that I never liked open reed calls for many reasons. Now as I sit here thinking back I have used some open reed calls that were very well built and some sounded great like Jason Phelps calls and the Dillon call who ever makes that one. I do not sell one as of yet but maybe I should design one that would compete with those two calls ! Maybe you guys have changed this old boys thought on only using reeds like I have been for years !! I\'ll tell you if I do decide to make an open reed call it will have to perform like no other or I will not be happy with selling it as I do not believe in selling crappy products !! You guys work to darn hard to just throw your money away and I know that !!

anyways the question was what do you use and why:

I use a single latex reed and a bugle tube.
The reed I use is called The Reaper and it\'s a domed type reed ! I have been using it for a year now and used it all September hunting elk and I also used it at The world Elk Calling championships which no I have never won YET !! I am unfortunately not a world champion caller and I do not say I am either ! If one day I win a world championship then I will be able to call myself a world champion caller !! I am however a Pro caller as I make money from selling my products. Many of the pro\'s this year had me at third behind Corey and Brian !!

So why do I use only one reed ? Simple once you find a reed that fits you like a glove and you can make every sound you want with it there is no reason to change. I carry 4-5 extra reeds for sure but they are all the same reed. Your calling will improve because you will become so familiar with that reed the sounds you make with it will be automatic. Now for me it\'s a single reed for others it may be a double or triple it doesn\'t really matter as we all have different shaped mouths and the way we deliver air pressure is different. But when you each find that reed that fits you great and the sounds are there do not change ! :dance2:

Hope this helps others out !

Trav

 

[Swede]

Travis for the sake of discussion lets focus on one small part of what you just posted. I do not feel you left me much to debate, so lets go to the one I quote below.

So why do I use only one reed ? Simple once you find a reed that fits you like a glove and you can make every sound you want with it there is no reason to change.

That statement reminds me of a fellow I worked with for years. He advocated having only one gun to hunt with, for the same reasons you advocate one diaphragm. He liked his 7MM rem. Mag. It did not matter if he was shooting coyotes or elk. Since he was a one gun hunter I would assume he did not chase after other small game or birds.
Haven\'t you done the same thing to yourself by going with only one elk voice? I know I can make different sounds with one call, but the range is limited and I have reduced my flexibility. Thanks in advance for your response.

 

[Guest]

Thanks swede now that is a very good question. I will explain my thoughts and they may be right or wrong only the elk will know !! LOL

When elk start bugling early in the season ( End of August ) The bulls bugle to one another and in doing so are making a pecking order. Now lets say Swede is a huge bull with a huge 8x8 frame and a deep hoarse bugle and ICCY is an average 6x6 and Travis is a wimpy little 4x4. ICCY being curious about Swedes Hoarse bugle will sneak in and have a look at Swede. Well as you all can imagine looking at those 8x8 antlers that Swede has there is no way that ICCY or Travis are going to mess with him and get our butts kicked !! So they put his bugle into there memory and now have no need to investigate that bugle when the rut kicks in.....He gets the girls he wants.

So what I\'m getting at is all these elk have a pecking order and there bugle is what the other bulls associate with those bugles. Now as elk hunters there are elk we have heard from season to season and you know it\'s the same elk just by his bugle ! I have seen this over the years and have also witnessed first hand this pecking order I talk about. Early in the morning about a half hour after sunrise the woods are quiet until One bull bugles down in a canyon then from up on a ridge 200 yards from that bull another bull bugles then 200 yards from that bull another bull bugled ! Neither of these other bulls came down and challenged the first bull and he had 20 some cows ! They bugled just to let him and his cows know they were there. They are herd animals and they know there limits.

Now what happens when Swede has all the girls and ICCY comes in on him and challenges him for his cows ? ICCY walks into 40-50 yards of Swedes girls and bugles !! Swede knows instantly who\'s bugle that is and he\'s not happy !

All hell breaks loose that\'s what !!!

So this is where my one reed comes in. I am trying to sound like only one bull all the time as I want to be somewhere in this pecking order of bulls ! I\'ll use the exact same location bugle all season just being this lone bull. But the elk get to know my bugle and I\'m excepted into there ranks !

Now what happens when Travis walks into any of these other bulls cows and bugles ?? All hell breaks loose and the bull comes screaming over with his eyes rolled back in his head and he\'s drooling like he has rabies !!!

Now is the guy that\'s standing back 250-300 yards letting out bugle after different bugle with different reeds every going to experience where Travis is standing at that exact moment in time? Not likely !! But Travis will every single day he is out and the elk are vocal !!

Guys this is what\'s going on out there in the elk woods. I have kept track of how many bulls I call in each season.

2012 48 bulls, 2013 45 bull and 2014 was 18 up until September 11th !! My brother passed away the morning of the 12th and I was out elk hunting and the woods were very quiet around me !! My brother died at 9:30 that morning !!

My world had just come crashing down on me and I was lost. A couple days later my wife and I headed out to pay respects to my brother. We went to our favorite ridge over looking a deep canyon and we sat there till dusk then I let out a bugle for my brother and the whole canyon blew up with bulls bugling everywhere !! Bulls were answering me one at a time in there pecking order as I had not been there for 5-6 days !! I never hunted the rest of the bugling season as family was up and I didn\'t feel right leaving to go hunting. Plus I was the speaker at my brothers funeral and took care of the whole process. I also did a Bugling tribute to my brother during his funeral and I know he was proud at that moment !!

When those 6 bulls bugled back it was like they missed my bugle for the last 5-6 days and were happy to see me !! The one bull came right into me and my wife to 10 yards and was moaning and groaning right in front of us !!

So this is my reasoning on one reed and sounding the same. Like I say it may be right or wrong I don\'t know but all I know is that it works for me time and time again.

Travis

 

[Russel Reed]

First of all, HI! I\'m new to the forum and I was looking around the net and discovered this one and it looked interesting since I\'ve hunted elk for close to 30 years. I just spotted iccyman\'s thread and wanted to reply.

It sounds as if you may be fairly new to the world of elk hunting. Nothing wrong with that! But calling in a spike does not make you an elk hunter by a long shot. Spikes, especially ones that are alone are fairly easy to call with almost any sound because they are just babies \"1- 1/2 years old\" and they are looking for any other elk they can find to hang out with. In a since, they are lonely and searching for companionship.

I have called in probably well over 100 +++ elk and I only use one diaphragm to make all my sounds with. I can imitate sounds from a calf to the meanest bull you ever heard with a Raging Bull diaphragm.

If you will just take the time to learn, I think you will eventually get the hang of it. It just takes dedication and practice. Just slip one in your mouth and say shhhhhhhh. Think about what you tongue is doing when you make the shhhhhhh sound. That is exactly what you want it to do when learning the diaphragm. Do it without using your lips, just your tongue and very lite air pressure. Once you get that first sound it is all just a simple matter of control.

Hope this helps you out a little bit. And again HI to everyone here.

 

[Swede]

Travis, that was a very interesting read. There is a lot to think about there. Thanks.

Russel, welcome to the forum. It is good to have you here, and thanks for your thoughtful post.

 

[iccyman001]

First of all, HI! I\'m new to the forum and I was looking around the net and discovered this one and it looked interesting since I\'ve hunted elk for close to 30 years. I just spotted iccyman\'s thread and wanted to reply.

It sounds as if you may be fairly new to the world of elk hunting. Nothing wrong with that! But calling in a spike does not make you an elk hunter by a long shot. Spikes, especially ones that are alone are fairly easy to call with almost any sound because they are just babies \"1- 1/2 years old\" and they are looking for any other elk they can find to hang out with. In a since, they are lonely and searching for companionship.

I have called in probably well over 100 +++ elk and I only use one diaphragm to make all my sounds with. I can imitate sounds from a calf to the meanest bull you ever heard with a Raging Bull diaphragm.

If you will just take the time to learn, I think you will eventually get the hang of it. It just takes dedication and practice. Just slip one in your mouth and say shhhhhhhh. Think about what you tongue is doing when you make the shhhhhhh sound. That is exactly what you want it to do when learning the diaphragm. Do it without using your lips, just your tongue and very lite air pressure. Once you get that first sound it is all just a simple matter of control.

Hope this helps you out a little bit. And again HI to everyone here.

Thank you for the post Russel and welcome!
2014 was my first year of elk hunting and you hit that nail right on the head. I can definitely understand what you mean with the spikes not meaning much, because I relate them to young whitetail bucks. They are not bright and would walk up to me, even if I was wearing bells. Shoot, I had one fall asleep under my stand this year even with me talking to him and trying to get him to leave.

That was mostly the idea behind the thread. Learn what other people are doing, so new people like me can incorporate it into our hunting routines.

It seems like you and wapiti have the same outlook with using the one diaphragm to make all your calls. I think that is very cool and hope to be able to do something similar some day. I already know it\'ll be tough, but I will put in the work! I have 7-8 months before the season starts, so I better get on it now. :upthumb:

Just try not to make too much fun of me when I post videos for you guys to critique my calls!



It is funny though, I will buy calls and put in the practice, but that doesn\'t even mean that I will use them this year! I like the idea of being flexible.
Im not a caller, I am not a still hunter, I am not a tree stand hunter... I am a hybrid of all of them!










Swede, I am sorry I came in and tried to steal your cows :haha:
Wapiti, your post makes sense. The one question I ask you is. Do you only focus on bugling? You mentioned you like to establish your pecking order and touched on bugles a lot. Is that all you will do? Or is that the start to get the bulls interested, then you throw in cow variations on top of that?

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Most of you don\'t know me, my name is John Fitzgerald and I\'ve been an elk hunting addict for 35 years.

Been calling for 15 years now.....give or take. No competitions for me. Many have suggested I go, but I get severe stage fright. So I\'ll just keep it in the woods. I\'m very modest....some say too modest but grandpa taught me that bragging is the worst thing you can do after your kill.

For me, it\'s about helping the newbie. I want no credit or anyone to believe in me. I\'m just John.

So with that, I use 2 external bite-n-blow, 2 external hypers, and two reeds with a different stretch. Also, I carry my custom made GCHC grunt tube. Majority of the time I\'m on my reeds but will go to externals on occasion. During the action times my reed never leaves my mouth and can be complimented by the externals. For some cold call setups, I put 2 in my left hand, the reed inside my mouth, and with sound direction from my right hand I can sound like many different elk.

Why two reeds? Easy.....two reeds allow you to represent both ends of the spectrum. You can see competition callers swapping out reeds during their routine and I do the same when need be. The lighter stretch latex for cow sounds and tighter stretch for bull sounds. Do you have to be a great caller to hunt elk, no! But it sure does increase your odds.

One tip with externals, make sure to attach them to your pack around your collar bone(bow hand side). I do not like tucking them in because it limits quick access.

My 2-cents.

 

[Swede]

I agree what Travis posted makes sense, but it may be important to put it into context.

So this is where my one reed comes in. I am trying to sound like only one bull all the time as I want to be somewhere in this pecking order of bulls ! I\'ll use the exact same location bugle all season just being this lone bull. But the elk get to know my bugle and I\'m excepted into there ranks !

To get to be known by the real bulls in the area, Travis is hunting the same general location all the time. To be established in the pecking order Travis is hanging out in the same area all the time. If you are staying and hunting in the same place all season, year after year, this may work well. I have never tried sticking with only one call, so I have no personal experience. It just stands to reason that a person moving from place to place would not necessarily benefit from using one diaphragm as they never get known and are not in the pecking order.

 

[treble]

th 86 I brought in a Bull with nothing more than a stick that was laying at my feet I was 15 at the time..

now I carry two diaphragm calls why two just in case the first rips...

 

[AndyJ]

I can definitely understand what you mean with the spikes not meaning much

I don\'t understand that comment. I understand the intent of the original comment but you should be very proud of that spike. Thousands of hunters finish their seasons every year wishing nothing more than to have been able to shoot any elk. While spikes tend to be more inquisitive than older elk, they are still much smarter than they were as calves. I can say from experience, I don\'t think any elk is easier to call in than a rutted out satellite bull.

 

[cnelk]

I would like to add that an old cow can be more difficult to call in than a rutty satellite bull too

 

[razorback]

Even though they weren\'t legal in the unit I was hunting, I would have loved to call in a spike! I would have considered it a huge success. With that said I wouldn\'t have walked off the mountain thinking I had mastered elk calling but no doubt it would have been a step in the right direction.

 

[iccyman001]

I can definitely understand what you mean with the spikes not meaning much

I don\'t understand that comment. I understand the intent of the original comment but you should be very proud of that spike. Thousands of hunters finish their seasons every year wishing nothing more than to have been able to shoot any elk. While spikes tend to be more inquisitive than older elk, they are still much smarter than they were as calves. I can say from experience, I don\'t think any elk is easier to call in than a rutted out satellite bull.

I\'m sorry it came off like that Andy and anyone else that took my comment like that. I hope that anyone who knows me would know that is not how I am as a hunter and a person.
I was more excited about my spike elk kill this year than anything I have ever shot in my life. So I really was not meaning that by what I posted and I appreciate you pointing that out. It\'s the last thing that I ever want coming from my mouth. I put a lot of hard work and dedication into all of my hunts and when I actually get something, it is the most rewarding feeling.

My response was based off me not knowing enough about elk yet. He made it seem that calling in a spike wasn\'t anything to really toot your horn about due to their age and them being so inquisitive. I just automatically related it to small whitetail bucks which I am used to being fairly easy to call in verse a nice mature buck.


Again I want you reiterate, I will never shoot something and then downplay it. That spike elk will forever be a huge hunting experience in my heart and mind.