Opinions Wanted...

[cohunter14]

I apologize ahead of time because this post is going to get a little long-winded, but I would appreciate any opinions you all have on this. I already have my thoughts, but I feel like running it by all of you will help as well. Plus, what else is there to do for the next 10 months???

Here\'s the deal: if any of you read my post regarding my elk hunt this year, you will remember me mentioning a conversation I had with the CPW Officer when he stopped by our camp. We were talking with him about the lack of sign in the area and he essentially told us that there were some illegal activities occurring that were causing a lot of the elk to move out of this area and onto private land at lower elevations. While he couldn\'t elaborate, he said there were multiple agencies investigating it and that it could take some time to resolve it. When I asked how long, he said potentially a couple of years. The other issue is that even if it does get taken care of, it could take even more time to break the pattern of the elk moving down to private early in the year.

One other issue the officer made us aware of was the fact that one of the roads that accesses the area was actually supposed to be closed. The road is basically only used by ATV\'s and it takes you down a hill to the bottom of a drainage, allowing folks to hunt the other side while not having to hike back up the hill to the main road. We had used this road along with many others on the first few days, so we were a little surprised when we were told it was closed. I asked him why it wasn\'t marked and he told us it was supposed to be, but people kept removing the sign.

So, with all of this being said, here are my thoughts and some additional information. I had trail cameras up since July in multiple locations through this area and was able to get some really nice bulls on camera. However, I never once got a cow on the camera. During our hunt, I was able to take a bull on the third morning of the hunt and another bull was seen that day. I also spotted a bull the evening of the second day while glassing. We also glassed and chased up four different elk the fourth day, with at least a couple of those being cows (didn\'t get a glimpse of the other group).

Here are my concerns:
1) We started seeing elk when all of the other hunters had left the area due to lack of sign. This also kept hunters from using the ATV trail that is supposed to be closed, which could have only helped in us beginning to see elk.
2) It didn\'t seem like the CPW Officer was going to get too involved in enforcing the closed trail. He told us he \'might\' bring a new sign up the day after we spoke to him, but he never did. When we broke camp, there was still no sign there. So if this is never enforced, it could continue to make the elk skittish in the area.
3) Illegal activities - I have dealt with these in the past and we ended up leaving an area that we had hunted for 15+ years because of the issues. It seems to me that as much as the CPW wants to alleviate these issues, there is only so much they can do to make it happen.
4) I would like to expand on the area we hunt so we are able to cover a lot of ground until we find elk. The problem with this area is that there are only a few options. One of those is hunting an area that is only accessible by ATV, meaning we either have to load the ATV up on a trailer, drive 30 minutes, unload the trailer, and then ride another 20+ minutes to access the area. And that area is close enough that it would also be affected by the illegal activities. The other options are accessed via trail heads, aka parking lots loaded with tons of horse trailers and folks who want to \'get away from other hunters.\' These areas get hunted HARD, so I don\'t see those as being good options. Outside of that, it would be a good 90+ minute drive to access other areas, which is tough to commit to on a five day hunt.


In the end, my goal is to find an area that I can continue to hunt year in and year out so I can really learn the area. I have had enough of jumping around from unit to unit (three in the last five years) and really want to settle down somewhere so I can truly learn the area. I feel like I might have found a spot where bachelor bulls tend to hang out before and after the rut, but that is strictly a guess at this point due to only hunting this area twice now. I also feel like this area could eventually get better if the issues get taken care of, but I do have my doubts about that as well. I also know that there are some good sized bulls in this area and there is a legitimate chance at shooting a 300 class bull, which I couldn\'t say about my previous area. But I also don\'t want to give this area another few years only to find out I was wrong and I need to move on.

So, what would you do if you were in my shoes? Would you continue to give the area a shot, knowing that it doesn\'t hold large numbers of elk, but could hold a few? Or would you decide to move on, even though you punched a tag this year? Any opinions, thoughts, or ideas are appreciated!

 

[cnelk]

Derek,
I will keep my first post about this kinda short but will prob expand on it later [its almost Nebraska time!]

3 words - Keep Hunting It.
The state success is 20% and you went 25% this year with your group [in a new area I may add]
An area doesnt have to have a lot of elk, just some that keep cycling thru.

Areas change. Since there was an issue identified, it will be corrected.

I have a saying that tends to hold true
\'Time is a great equalizer\'


If the road closes, deal with it. It will only make the area better. If it stays open, well, you know how to hunt it!

If the elk move down, that still is OK. Weather and pressure can send them right back up into your lap

More to come....

 

[Ucsdryder]

Did he say if the illegal activities are dangerous? Was it a weed garden? Do they have those out here? In Oregon you didn\'t mess with that stuff. Booby traps, Mexican nationals with ak47, etc. they would put huge gardens on national forest land. I wandered onto one a few years back. Scared the crap out of me.

 

[cohunter14]

I think it was just people somehow herding the elk down onto private land. I don\'t think it has anything to do with that or I assume the officer would have warned us. That would be scary for sure!

 

[Swede]

I think I would continue to hunt the area where you hunted this year. There are bad apples everywhere.
The roads need to be signed to have a closure enforced. Still the road is legally closed. Whether you follow the other hunters example violating the closure or not is your call. If the Forest Service won\'t enforce their directives, they are probably not very important. Your call sir.
One part of me says obey the law. Another part says the only way to get the change you want is to get the F.S. to do their job.

 

[mtnmutt]

Because of decades of stolen signs by motorized vehicle users, I thought the FS had changed their rules that now make trails and roads closed unless a sign is placed indicating it is open to motorized vehicles. This new way sure would cut down on signs being stolen. If a trail or road doesn\'t have a sign indicating open for motorized use than it is assumed to be closed.

Now for examples where the FS has had enough and takes other measures than placing a sign.

3rd week in September, FS closed an upper portion of a legal road in my unit which allowed people to drive right to a Wilderness boundary. They only used a thick metal pole in the middle of the road, so it isn\'t great. It won\'t stop atvs or dirt bikes. Perhaps they will take other measures next Summer.

7 years ago in the same area during opening week, the FS brought in heavy equipment to down trees and move boulders to block motorized access of a hiking trail that parallels a creek. The atvs and dirt bikes caused a lot of erosion, so the FS had enough of them not following the designation. When the atvs and dirt bikes whizzed through there blasting their music over Labor Day weekend, the elk would still use the creek area at night. BUT, after the access was blocked, it truly became a hot spot for elk, deer and moose. In addition, the number of hunters hunting that creek area went way down.

I have tried 5 different OTCs. The grass is not likely greener moving to a different unit. At least they know about the illegal activity and are doing something about it. I have a feeling that more and more DYI hunters are reporting this type of illegal activity. GoPros and cell phones are probably a curse for these LOs if they engage in illegal activities.

I know of another location that was experiencing the same illegal activity where the private landowner drove or spooked the elk off NFS land when DYI hunters were approaching a herd next to their ranch.

If the CPW gets at least one conviction, LOs may take notice.

With your recent success and knowledge of the area, I would hunt it again next season.

 

[Anonymous]

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[cohunter14]

Thank you all for the responses! We had already settled on going back there next year, but I was curious to hear everyone else\'s thoughts.

I am glad to hear everyone is on the same page for the most part. Too many times I hear of people packing up and moving on to a new spot because everything isn\'t \'perfect.\' As many of you eluded to, the grass isn\'t always greener and if you are finding elk, you still have a chance of punching your tag. By continuing to hunt an area and learn more and more about it every year, that success will hopefully continue as well! I believe it takes many years to truly learn an area, which is impossible to do if you are constantly changing where you hunt. Things will probably continue to change in our area and we will have to continue to evolve with those changes, but as was mentioned, this happens in basically every unit out there.