Question To Callers
- Thread starter OldMan
- Start date
Olympushunt
New member
- Jun 30, 2014
- 234
\"elkmtngear\" said:
I don\'t think I have ever read a post I agree with more. Nailed it. I have used and been successful at a number of methods....tree stands, still hunting, blind arss luck, and calling to a degree. This is just my opinion...calling is the toughest game. It is the most cerebral, the most intense, the MOST challenging. I think a separate voting thread would be interesting. What do folks find the most rewarding and most difficult? Calling is about matching wits with your quarry. Can you speak their language? Can you tell what \"this\" means and what to do next? I agree Jeff, I feel sorry for the person who hasn\'t \"been\" there. I think this is at the heart of why calling is so popular. Again...my opinion....calling is the most difficult game to play with them and it has become more difficult over the years. But why limit yourself? There are times when calling isn\'t the best option. Maybe a tree stand is....maybe still hunting is. A person will miss out being tunnel visioned. All methods have their merits so the most well rounded hunter will fill their freezer most consistently. I doubt any hunter can claim they can\'t learn another method as their method would take a life time to master.
I think john and Oly make some good points here. Calling is challenging. Calling has been very aggravating to me. I get close then something bad happens, or I mess up. The internet has provided a wealth of good information on calling, and other methods of elk hunting, but it is never easy. To John\'s point on advertising: Advertising is information. You have a few seconds to convince me I need what you are selling. If the product looks good and the information is convincing, I will buy.
cohunter14
Administrator
- Jul 10, 2017
- 5,345
\"Still Hunter\" said:
Pete, I don\'t think there is any way to know who will make a good still hunter. There are definitely some things you need while still hunting, including patience. Some people might not be patient enough for still hunting when they first start, but can they learn? Absolutely!
Another thing to remember is what Jeff said: most hunters deploy multiple tactics when they hunt. Some might use calls, but maybe they use them to find where the elk are and still hunt them at that point. As an example, picture if you were to go hunt a different unit this year and weren\'t able to scout it beforehand (like you were thinking of trying last year). You wouldn\'t be able to just show up and still hunt. First, you would probably need to do some glassing, get some boots on the ground, etc to find where the elk are. Once you find them, then you have the opportunity to still hunt.
I think there could be a lot of still hunters actually out there who simply don\'t refer to it as still hunting. For example, spot and stalk, which could be someone glassing an area, finding where the elk bed, and then \'stalking\' them, or still hunting them, to punch their tag. Run and gun...to me, that means covering ground until you find elk and then trying to fill your tag. Again, that could end by still hunting.
These are just some things to keep in mind. Instead of figuring out who would make a good still hunter, tell people how to be a better still hunter or how to be a great still hunter. But at the end of the day, the only way to be a successful still hunter is hunting where there is elk, and you have to find them first
JohnFitzgerald
New member
- Mar 31, 2014
- 1,108
Nope, you not alone Jeff. But we also come from a time where elk calling was just something the weird crowd did. Our luxury is we\'ve experienced the transition from one trend to another. For today\'s first time elk hunters, unless they have a strong mentor, the commercialization of a miracle bugles wins out every time.
Our luxury is we\'ve experienced the transition from one trend to another. For today\'s first time elk hunters, unless they have a strong mentor, the commercialization of a miracle bugles wins out every time.I\'ve mentioned this before, but I guess i should repeat it. When I was young my dad taught me how to still hunt, because that\'s all he did. I did it for awhile, but being young I was curious like anybody is. I tried every single way there is to hunt elk. Including calling. I even tried long range shooting.
After doing that I thought about all the ways I had hunted for elk. I thought about it a lot. I finally decided that still hunting was the most challenging, most rewarding,and just more damn fun that any other way. It never failed to bring a big smile on my face, and the harder it was the bigger the smile. I decided at that point to do nothing but still hunt, and become as good at it as possible. I\'ve also mentioned i\'ve trained some friends to still hunt my way. These were callers, spot and stalkers, long range shooters etc. All but one of them are still hunters now, and don\'t hunt an y other way anymore. The one who didn\'t stay with it was a long range shooter, and he just couldn\'t leave it. I might add that all of them kill more elk now than they did before with their old methods.
Someone mentioned that it would be hard to go to a new area, and still hunt it. I agree, because still hunting takes a lot of prep, and without the prep your odds for success go down. However, a caller can go to a new area, and be very successful. To me that shows it\'s an easier method.
I\'d be willing to bet the majority of hunters who say they still hunt, are really stalking. Especially, if their successful.
I will say one thing for these threads. It\'s opened my eyes quite a bit wider about still hunting, and how hunters feel about it. It seems it\'s a more of a niche method than I realized all these years. When you love something so much you begin to feel everybody would love it if they could feel like you do. That was a wrong assumption on my part. I\'m beginning to think a book on still hunting might not be what I thought it would be. I don\'t do well being criticized about something I love. I\'m also a don\'t pull punches, honest kind of guy who says what\'s on my mind. A book may not come off like I want it to if I have to be worried about someone being offended.
I need to think about this.
After doing that I thought about all the ways I had hunted for elk. I thought about it a lot. I finally decided that still hunting was the most challenging, most rewarding,and just more damn fun that any other way. It never failed to bring a big smile on my face, and the harder it was the bigger the smile. I decided at that point to do nothing but still hunt, and become as good at it as possible. I\'ve also mentioned i\'ve trained some friends to still hunt my way. These were callers, spot and stalkers, long range shooters etc. All but one of them are still hunters now, and don\'t hunt an y other way anymore. The one who didn\'t stay with it was a long range shooter, and he just couldn\'t leave it. I might add that all of them kill more elk now than they did before with their old methods.
Someone mentioned that it would be hard to go to a new area, and still hunt it. I agree, because still hunting takes a lot of prep, and without the prep your odds for success go down. However, a caller can go to a new area, and be very successful. To me that shows it\'s an easier method.
I\'d be willing to bet the majority of hunters who say they still hunt, are really stalking. Especially, if their successful.
I will say one thing for these threads. It\'s opened my eyes quite a bit wider about still hunting, and how hunters feel about it. It seems it\'s a more of a niche method than I realized all these years. When you love something so much you begin to feel everybody would love it if they could feel like you do. That was a wrong assumption on my part. I\'m beginning to think a book on still hunting might not be what I thought it would be. I don\'t do well being criticized about something I love. I\'m also a don\'t pull punches, honest kind of guy who says what\'s on my mind. A book may not come off like I want it to if I have to be worried about someone being offended.
I need to think about this.
iccyman001
New member
- Apr 30, 2014
- 5,489
Pete,
you\'re kind of contradicting yourself and I just want to point out why I think you should just stop worrying about it and write your book.
You mention your love and passion for still hunting, but are second guessing the writing of your book because it might offend someone.
Pete, if it\'s your passion, write about it and let your feelings pour into that book. Make it your own and pass on the message that you want everyone to take from it. People who buy your book will know what it\'s about and what they will be reading.
If they are anything like me, they are reading it for the benefit of increasing their hunting knowledge.
The outcome of your book should not be to convert everyone to be still hunters, but to instead pass on a tradition, skill set, or life experiences that you have had from still hunting. Even if you are able to pass this stuff on to a few people, you\'ve done your job. Everyone will take away something new from your book. I don\'t care who they are, they will learn something.
Even stubborn callers like John, who are very much like you and set in their own ways. They will pick up the book and learn something new that they can use.
If I was 74 and had many years of hunting experience, I would want to pass them on too.
My grandfather did it, my father did it, and I will do it. I don\'t care who I offend or make upset. It\'s my life long hobby and I will say that until the day I die.
Do you think people like Swede contemplated whether he would offend still hunters? Or do you think he wrote his book because he\'s passionate about it and wanted to educate.
We are a very fortunate forum to have authors and sponsors who all had dreams to help people become better hunters.
Well guess what, they knuckled down and did it.
Now it\'s your turn.
I feel like your objective for this thread has run astray.
So lets all either keep it on topic, or run along.
you\'re kind of contradicting yourself and I just want to point out why I think you should just stop worrying about it and write your book.
You mention your love and passion for still hunting, but are second guessing the writing of your book because it might offend someone.
Pete, if it\'s your passion, write about it and let your feelings pour into that book. Make it your own and pass on the message that you want everyone to take from it. People who buy your book will know what it\'s about and what they will be reading.
If they are anything like me, they are reading it for the benefit of increasing their hunting knowledge.
The outcome of your book should not be to convert everyone to be still hunters, but to instead pass on a tradition, skill set, or life experiences that you have had from still hunting. Even if you are able to pass this stuff on to a few people, you\'ve done your job. Everyone will take away something new from your book. I don\'t care who they are, they will learn something.
Even stubborn callers like John, who are very much like you and set in their own ways. They will pick up the book and learn something new that they can use.
If I was 74 and had many years of hunting experience, I would want to pass them on too.
My grandfather did it, my father did it, and I will do it. I don\'t care who I offend or make upset. It\'s my life long hobby and I will say that until the day I die.
Do you think people like Swede contemplated whether he would offend still hunters? Or do you think he wrote his book because he\'s passionate about it and wanted to educate.
We are a very fortunate forum to have authors and sponsors who all had dreams to help people become better hunters.
Well guess what, they knuckled down and did it.
Now it\'s your turn.
I feel like your objective for this thread has run astray.
So lets all either keep it on topic, or run along.
You mentioned that you wanted to understand callers ... get in their heads.
I think calling elk is kind of an adrenaline rush. That\'s what separates it from other methods. Sure, all hunting can be exciting, and intense, but calling is for the adrenaline junkie. If I have a bull bugling close to me, I can live for another 11 months! I don\'t know what it is -- dopamine in my brain or something -- but it\'s exciting.
I think you\'re right, Pete, that still hunters are more likely to come from a certain personality set, too. Calm and deliberate, they stay on-task and can maintain a mental intensity even when there is \"nothing\" going on, and they do it, I\'m betting, even better than treestanders.
I think you\'re on the correct path by trying to understand just what personality traits are \"exercised\" by still hunting, and concentrate your book on those.
Look at all of the Cameron Haines-type hunters ... they have a whole different set of personality traits that they exercise and develop to get to hunt like they do. But they just go out and talk/write about it with abandon. And even though the rest of us aren\'t exactly like them, we find bits and pieces there that are applicable.
Calm, deliberate, intensity that trusts its knowledge of the area and the animals -- those are personality traits that you must\'ve developed to hunt like you do, and I\'d like to read about how you did that.
(My bet is that the average non-still hunter lacks mostly in that last part -- \"trust in your knowledge of the area and the animals\". Lack of confidence is what keeps people from still hunting.)
I think calling elk is kind of an adrenaline rush. That\'s what separates it from other methods. Sure, all hunting can be exciting, and intense, but calling is for the adrenaline junkie. If I have a bull bugling close to me, I can live for another 11 months! I don\'t know what it is -- dopamine in my brain or something -- but it\'s exciting.
I think you\'re right, Pete, that still hunters are more likely to come from a certain personality set, too. Calm and deliberate, they stay on-task and can maintain a mental intensity even when there is \"nothing\" going on, and they do it, I\'m betting, even better than treestanders.
I think you\'re on the correct path by trying to understand just what personality traits are \"exercised\" by still hunting, and concentrate your book on those.
Look at all of the Cameron Haines-type hunters ... they have a whole different set of personality traits that they exercise and develop to get to hunt like they do. But they just go out and talk/write about it with abandon. And even though the rest of us aren\'t exactly like them, we find bits and pieces there that are applicable.
Calm, deliberate, intensity that trusts its knowledge of the area and the animals -- those are personality traits that you must\'ve developed to hunt like you do, and I\'d like to read about how you did that.
(My bet is that the average non-still hunter lacks mostly in that last part -- \"trust in your knowledge of the area and the animals\". Lack of confidence is what keeps people from still hunting.)
Here\'s the problem, and Dan demonstrated it perfectly. I seem to have a problem expressing myself without being misunderstood. It\'s a constant battle on forums for me, but in a book I wouldn\'t know I screwed up until it was too late.
Dan.....I was saying that still hunting may be too niche to be popular. Not enough interest. If I add to that of being misunderstood the book will fail for sure. In person I have no problems with anybody. I can get my point across, and do it so whoever i\'m talking to understands exactly what i\'m saying. I get this by instant feedback, and then can adjust what i\'m saying. I can\'t do that with the written word. I don\'t claim to be a writer, and it would be foolish to write a book that\'s hard to understand.
I\'ve passed on what I know to friends. When I think back on it there were many times I had to go over something many times before it sunk in. How could I do it by just writing it down? I won\'t be getting any feedback from the readers.
I may be coming off as pretty negative about this. I\'m just being realistic. It\'s not my style to put a lot of effort into something with bad odds. Is there a need for a book on still hunting? I\'m not sure anymore. I\'ve read the very few books written on still hunting, and I didn\'t think they were very good, but they never were good sellers. Even the classic written by Van Dyke in the 1800\'s.
It\'s obvious that the vast majority of elk hunter want to call them in. I\'ve learned from this forum how exciting it is for the hunter. It\'s still not for me, but I can appreciate the popularity of it, and the thrill it gives to the hunter.
Nobody knows how many years they have left on earth. At my age it\'s has to be getting closer than most. I just bought a Kentucky style long rifle. I\'ve always wanted one, and finally got around to getting one. I want to compete in black powder shoots, and rendezvous with it. I may also hunt deer with it. I also love to fish, and of course I love my dog more than anything. Our hikes in the mountains area a pure joy for me, and i\'m sure for him too. I think i\'m just going to enjoy what years I have left shooting my Kentucky, fishing, and being with my dog \"Buddy\".
You guys are been a big help in my decision on writing a book, and I appreciate it. I won\'t be writing it.
Dan.....I was saying that still hunting may be too niche to be popular. Not enough interest. If I add to that of being misunderstood the book will fail for sure. In person I have no problems with anybody. I can get my point across, and do it so whoever i\'m talking to understands exactly what i\'m saying. I get this by instant feedback, and then can adjust what i\'m saying. I can\'t do that with the written word. I don\'t claim to be a writer, and it would be foolish to write a book that\'s hard to understand.
I\'ve passed on what I know to friends. When I think back on it there were many times I had to go over something many times before it sunk in. How could I do it by just writing it down? I won\'t be getting any feedback from the readers.
I may be coming off as pretty negative about this. I\'m just being realistic. It\'s not my style to put a lot of effort into something with bad odds. Is there a need for a book on still hunting? I\'m not sure anymore. I\'ve read the very few books written on still hunting, and I didn\'t think they were very good, but they never were good sellers. Even the classic written by Van Dyke in the 1800\'s.
It\'s obvious that the vast majority of elk hunter want to call them in. I\'ve learned from this forum how exciting it is for the hunter. It\'s still not for me, but I can appreciate the popularity of it, and the thrill it gives to the hunter.
Nobody knows how many years they have left on earth. At my age it\'s has to be getting closer than most. I just bought a Kentucky style long rifle. I\'ve always wanted one, and finally got around to getting one. I want to compete in black powder shoots, and rendezvous with it. I may also hunt deer with it. I also love to fish, and of course I love my dog more than anything. Our hikes in the mountains area a pure joy for me, and i\'m sure for him too. I think i\'m just going to enjoy what years I have left shooting my Kentucky, fishing, and being with my dog \"Buddy\".
You guys are been a big help in my decision on writing a book, and I appreciate it. I won\'t be writing it.
cohunter14
Administrator
- Jul 10, 2017
- 5,345
\"Still Hunter\" said:
Pete, I think you are missing the fact that it isn\'t and doesn\'t have to be a niche. Callers can use still hunting. Spot and stalkers can use still hunting. Hell, even long range shooters could end up using it if they aren\'t able to get a good shot opportunity. It isn\'t a niche, it is a piece of someone\'s artillery that they bring with them to the woods.
\"Still Hunter\" said:
Obviously a lot of archery hunters want to and do use calls. What about rifle hunters? There are far more of them around than there are archery hunters. Maybe not on this forum, but in general there sure are.
\"Still Hunter\" said:
I am sorry to hear that you won\'t be writing the book Pete. But does that mean you can now give us more detailed answers on here when it comes to still hunting??? :mrgreen: There is a lot that I would love to learn from you...
elky McElkerson
New member
- Mar 13, 2014
- 2,038
\"Still Hunter\" said:
Deja vu
This question makes no damn sense.
Since we are playing make believe: if I could I would love to come to full draw and TELEPORT to some area that puts me 20 yards and broadside of a bull elk.
I wish I had some Latin to put here.
elky McElkerson
New member
- Mar 13, 2014
- 2,038
Write the book, don\'t write the book.
Still hunting. I do a rough form of it getting to places I can spot from. No don\'t go blasting thru potential areas. Move slowly, play the wind. For me, I love to see the target animal with binos And then having to formulate a plan to either get into calling position or into some awesome ambush point. I dig the adrenalin rush.
Having an animal approach me, is my holy grail. I love it and I\'m kinda addicted to it.
Still hunting. I do a rough form of it getting to places I can spot from. No don\'t go blasting thru potential areas. Move slowly, play the wind. For me, I love to see the target animal with binos And then having to formulate a plan to either get into calling position or into some awesome ambush point. I dig the adrenalin rush.
Having an animal approach me, is my holy grail. I love it and I\'m kinda addicted to it.
Lark Bunting
New member
- Sep 14, 2016
- 710
Pete, we haven\'t chatted much back and forth but I just have one quick comment in favor of you writing a book. I have only hunted for two years now, my son has only hunted one. We are in a phase of hunting where we are sponges and trying to soak up any and all information we can get our hands on. I have read the tree stand book, Paul\'s book and numerous books from our public library on elk hunting. I weed through the rifle hunting books because most doesn\'t apply but if I find one little factoid in the book then it was worth the read. If nothing else, you have to consider there are people out there that want to experience everything they can about the different methods that may be out there...some of which they may not even know about.
One side note, you and I share a common interest outside of hunting and that is fly fishing, I have done it for 30+ years. I have been all over the map, Enjoying my time on the river, counted the number of fish, targeted the big fish, traveled different states, streamers only, Chech nymphing only, dry fly only, etc. I got judged one day as I was slinging an indicator with a couple midge nymphs hanging below to some really finicky fish in Cheeseman canyon. It was mid January, cold, sunny, the water was perfectly clear. I had a guy come up behind me, sat on a rock and eat lunch, watching me the whole time. I was happy to be out on such a beautiful day but sure wasn\'t fooling the fish in this particular run. As I made my way out of the river to chat with this older gentleman I encouraged him to give them a shot...his response...\"I don\'t nymph fish\". :roll: That had to be one of the biggest douche bag responses I could have heard that day, I\'ll never forget it. Who cares what I am doing or what he is doing? We were both out on a gorgeous day, doing something we enjoyed, and instead of carrying on a courteous conversation he immediately judged me for my methods of fooling fish. :downthumb:
Whether my son and I are out in the woods this fall calling elk, sitting a tree stand, still hunting...who knows? We will be out there trying to implement a technique we READ ABOUT. We have no mentors to guide us through the woods and show us the ways. We rely on reading and making a educated decision on what could work for us.
Hope to see you pursue the book idea.
One side note, you and I share a common interest outside of hunting and that is fly fishing, I have done it for 30+ years. I have been all over the map, Enjoying my time on the river, counted the number of fish, targeted the big fish, traveled different states, streamers only, Chech nymphing only, dry fly only, etc. I got judged one day as I was slinging an indicator with a couple midge nymphs hanging below to some really finicky fish in Cheeseman canyon. It was mid January, cold, sunny, the water was perfectly clear. I had a guy come up behind me, sat on a rock and eat lunch, watching me the whole time. I was happy to be out on such a beautiful day but sure wasn\'t fooling the fish in this particular run. As I made my way out of the river to chat with this older gentleman I encouraged him to give them a shot...his response...\"I don\'t nymph fish\". :roll: That had to be one of the biggest douche bag responses I could have heard that day, I\'ll never forget it. Who cares what I am doing or what he is doing? We were both out on a gorgeous day, doing something we enjoyed, and instead of carrying on a courteous conversation he immediately judged me for my methods of fooling fish. :downthumb:
Whether my son and I are out in the woods this fall calling elk, sitting a tree stand, still hunting...who knows? We will be out there trying to implement a technique we READ ABOUT. We have no mentors to guide us through the woods and show us the ways. We rely on reading and making a educated decision on what could work for us.
Hope to see you pursue the book idea.
I don\'t even pretend to be an elk hunter YET! I do however see me being a run and gun type caller chasing bugles if I should ever develop into one. One of the great things about hunting in general is there are no shortcuts. You get out of what it what you put into it. Everybody starts out at the bottom. Some of us have a dad or grandpa that takes us hunting, some us start out on our own. I had a grandpa that took me hunting, he was a good woodsman but not a great turkey hunter and didn\'t call at all. I learned to turkey call on my own. I read everything I could get my hands on and there wasn\'t a whole lot back in the 80s. I love introducing someone to turkey hunting. I love to watch the end of their shotgun barrel shake when I have longbeard double gobbling at 45 yards and coming. They usually end up saying something like I had no idea they were so loud and I\'ve never seen one strut before. I enjoy that more than killing one myself.
Now I realize I\'m 42 and I doubt I turn out to be another Troy Bungay or Dan Moore so I\'m going to have to have something to fall back on other than calling. My goal is to be a good caller but I\'m sure Troy relies on some woodsmanship and tactics to go along with great calling as well. OTCWill doesn\'t say a lot on this forum but he strikes me a flat out killer. I pay a lot of attention to everything he says too. Bottom line is there are guys who are very proficient at putting bulls on the ground and each have perfected methods that work for them. I haven\'t found what\'s going to work for me yet but even after I do I won\'t stop trying to learn.
Anytime somebody with knowledge of elk hunting is willing to put pen to paper they have my attention, don\'t sell yourself short!
Now I realize I\'m 42 and I doubt I turn out to be another Troy Bungay or Dan Moore so I\'m going to have to have something to fall back on other than calling. My goal is to be a good caller but I\'m sure Troy relies on some woodsmanship and tactics to go along with great calling as well. OTCWill doesn\'t say a lot on this forum but he strikes me a flat out killer. I pay a lot of attention to everything he says too. Bottom line is there are guys who are very proficient at putting bulls on the ground and each have perfected methods that work for them. I haven\'t found what\'s going to work for me yet but even after I do I won\'t stop trying to learn.
Anytime somebody with knowledge of elk hunting is willing to put pen to paper they have my attention, don\'t sell yourself short!
