Silent Bulls - Flavor of the day.....everyday

[JohnFitzgerald]

Silent bulls were the flavor of the day and we only filled a couple tags this year. Yet, I hear that 30 miles away the bulls wouldn\'t shut up. What did you see/hear in your areas?

A buddy said he believes that dry hot days and less rain in areas will cause a cow to go into estrus later. This is so the cow will obtaining enough nutrients to sport the pregnancy. If they maintain the poor diet, they may never go. What does every think?

 

[iccyman001]

My area was more quiet this year. They were talking, but last year they had a fire light under their butts......

Regarding the cow thing....
We had 3 times more the average rainfall up where I hunt and everything was just being odd this year.
We were expecting the rut to kick off earlier, but it ended happening the same time.....maybe even a little late to some.



I\'ll be able to report back with more info here soon.
I\'m interested to see if they will be talking when I take my buddy on his rifle hunt.

 

[bowhunter]

The weather can effect the timing a bit but I think the shortening days are the main trigger. As for the quiet bulls I think they are getting wise to calling and shut up. I am sure that the unpressured areas have vocal elk. I wish I knew where one of these areas was.

 

[F M]

Some of the same. It was really hot both times I went out this year. Was hoping it would be cooler the second trip and they would be talking more but they were not. They had some heavy rain 6 days before I got there and the were talking good for 2 days then went quite again.

The strange thing to me was the cows all ways talk where I hunt but not this year. I heard some bugles but not one cow chirp the whole time.

 

[Swede]

Things were normal where I hunt, as far as bugling and cow talk is concerned. I am a skeptic when it comes to weather or anything else changing time of estrus. There are a few cows that come in early, and a few that are late, but for the most part it is the same year after year.
By the way congrats on your bull.

 

[Deertick]

We had an EXCEEDINGLY quiet year this year.

I\'m skeptical that it was actually different, though.

As a scientist, I\'m convinced that the human mind is very susceptible to BIAS, in all of it\'s forms, and that our first and most comfortable explanations involve bias as their basis.

Look -- we\'re hunting a low density creature in a very large habitat ... random chance is a likely explanation for why we sometimes have a lot of elk, and sometimes can\'t find one; why sometimes they seem \"vocal\" and sometimes they don\'t.

I\'m not saying that other causes or explanations don\'t exist, but I do think that one camp\'s experience as \"great\" or \"terrible\" doesn\'t consist of enough data to make any conclusions. It\'s perhaps not even enough data to make a good hypothesis!

Well, wait ... what about talking to other hunters?

More bias. The plural of \"bias\" is not \"data\". We have a tendency to speak with others who are like us, and agree with us. That\'s not how you get objective data.

So ... why did it seem quiet where I was? I don\'t know, and I don\'t think my reasoning for picking that spot or timing was bad, and I don\'t think I\'ll approach the decision of where to hunt next year differently (except for the hunting pressure issue).

I do think we have to be very careful about generalizing based on our own anecdotes and those of our friends.

In college football they say any given team can beat any other team on any given Saturday. This year, we just got beat. Momentum in sports and in hunting is a tough thing to resist. Sometimes, instead of analyzing, the best thing to do is wait for the rematch! :lol:

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

All good points.

My area this year had heavier pressure last year and they bugled 3rd - 5th weekend. Since I hunt every style(tree stand, spot-n-stalk, chasing bugles), I\'d like to know why they didn\'t bugle. It could possibly save me a couple days of hard lessons.

So what do others think about warmer days, cooler nights, and full moon giving the elk greater incentive to feed at night?

Swede - Thanks. I refused to let The Recker have my season. My son had a 70 yard shot on him, but it would have been a tough shot for an experienced shooter. Sure would have been one hell of a first bull for him.

 

[Bowfreak]

You guys can take my info with a grain of salt as this was my first elk hunt. However, it was not my partners. He guided for years in WY and has been in on many elk kills with both bow and gun. Our first day was nasty weather. Cold, windy, rainy/snow.....it was also the best day with regard to elk interactions. We called in 2 bulls that day, the first one being about an hour into the hunt. If I wasn\'t such a novice, I made a mistake on my setup, I would have had a short season. After that day we only heard a few bugles in the evenings at best until the last evening. We found a ton of elk, just north of my unit boundary (of course). All we could do was watch and listen, which to me was almost as good as actually going after them. I learned a lot about elk behavior in just an hour or so watching those cows and bulls interact. I even saw one small 5 pt. breed a cow 2 times.

 

[cnelk]

I think its all about the cows.
The reason there is bugling in some parts and not others is the cows coming into estrus, and the amount of cows in the area.

No cows, few cows, little bugling.

For those who had some bugling, were there cows around?

For those that didnt, were the cows absent?

 

[otcWill]

Lots of questions brought up here. I\'ll answer the first at least. Bugling was definitely less this year than last. Sept. 5 was the best day for us this year (earliest hot action ever for us). Last year it was Sept. 14-15 which is right about average for \"best day\" in my notes. It was very hot but I don\'t think that effected bugling though I\'m sure it changes activity to a degree. Overall, there was MUCH better bugling early this year from pre-season through the first week than I\'ve ever heard before.

 

[Anonymous]

...

 

[Stringunner]

I think it has more to do with elk density than anything else. This is my opinion based upon what I have experienced. I think hunting pressure is a close 2nd particularly in areas where elk numbers are low, but then that leads directly back to primary reason #1.

 

[elkmtngear]

First week (starting 9/12) was \"decent\" to begin with, but few evening bugles. Most activity was early morning and short lived.

Weather shut them down after the first couple days. There was a \"surge\" the morning after the storm broke...had a nice bull at 80 yds raking a tree but couldn\'t approach because his cows had me surrounded.

After that, bugles were rare. Early morning I would be lucky to get one bugle right before they entered the dark timber. Then silence.

Any raghorns or juveniles I saw at that point looked like they were running scared. The lines had been drawn, the frenzy was over.

Again...wishing I would have left a week earlier this Season :agg:

For what it\'s worth...the aspens turned way earlier than last Season. Coincidence? :dk:

 

[Swede]

For many years, I have thought that weather, hunting pressure and elk density all impacted bugling. I am no longer as sure as I was, even though I still think pressure can be a factor. e.g. I watched the elk on the ranch, They would answer a bugle or would be going off on their own as long as I wanted to bugle at them. The ranch employees would push them from one area to another with their pickups. They were seeing people or trucks nearby every day. The weather was no different there than across the fence. Elk density was the only factor that changed. There were more elk to respond to a call, so there was much more bugling, and cow calls. I think it is more a social thing than anything else.
So, why can\'t John get a response? I don\'t think he was into the elk enough. It is the same reason I could not get a response when I was on the public land away from the ranch.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

I agree that lack of bulls would play a major roll in hearing bugles. However, we had an opposite hill advantage one night and watched 3 different herd bulls follow their cows out of bed ~10 minutes after the end of legal shoot light. Also we noticed several herds choosing to bed in the bottom. Which sucked for us because our tree stand locations were on top. :downthumb: One morning we dropped 800\' in elevation and went to the bottom and noticed a 10 degree drop in temperature.

 

[JohnFitzgerald]

Really good article about rut. Sure does explain a lot about my season.

<!-- m --><a class=\"postlink\" href=\"http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net/elk-rut.html\" onclick=\"window.open(this.href);return false;\">http://www.elk-hunting-tips.net/elk-rut.html</a><!-- m -->

 

[cohunter14]

Interesting reading...makes a lot of sense.

 

[Swede]

I think the writer of the article is correct for the most part. That moon phase stuff can be pitched in the garbage. I do not remember ever reading any study, including the book he refers to, where moon phase is observed to significantly change breeding times. I have read that most elk breeding happens at night. It is not based on moon phase. My personal observations are that the rut increases elk activity and they travel around more. They also talk more so it can be a good time to ambush them, as well as to call them.

I really gave John too brief of an answer on where to place a tree stand. The truth is I have had places where I could get a lot of hits on a trail camera, but they were poor tree stand locations. To say just hang a stand, where you get the most pictures on a camera, is an over simplification of the problem.
I hunt near bedding areas on hillsides, so I can keep it simple. Generally hunt where you record the most elk on a trail camera. It doesn\'t always work, since elk move, but it is a start. It is disgusting to have elk around until the evening before the season opens, then they pull out and I am left waiting for days.
Hunting feeding area in bottoms is difficult. You need to place your stand higher and in a place where your scent will not fill the area where the elk feed. Approach a stand in a low meadow so that your scent will not fill the feeding area. It can be tricky and you may also need to time your ingress and egress carefully. I sure had a spot this season where that was a problem.

 

[Bowfreak]

I think the writer of the article is correct for the most part. That moon phase stuff can be pitched in the garbage. I do not remember ever reading any study, including the book he refers to, where moon phase is observed to significantly change breeding times. I have read that most elk breeding happens at night. It is not based on moon phase. My personal observations are that the rut increases elk activity and they travel around more. They also talk more so it can be a good time to ambush them, as well as to call them.

I really gave John too brief of an answer on where to place a tree stand. The truth is I have had places where I could get a lot of hits on a trail camera, but they were poor tree stand locations. To say just hang a stand, where you get the most pictures on a camera, is an over simplification of the problem.
I hunt near bedding areas on hillsides, so I can keep it simple. Generally hunt where you record the most elk on a trail camera. It doesn\'t always work, since elk move, but it is a start. It is disgusting to have elk around until the evening before the season opens, then they pull out and I am left waiting for days.
Hunting feeding area in bottoms is difficult. You need to place your stand higher and in a place where your scent will not fill the area where the elk feed. Approach a stand in a low meadow so that your scent will not fill the feeding area. It can be tricky and you may also need to time your ingress and egress carefully. I sure had a spot this season where that was a problem.

What I know about elk hunting can pass through the eye of a needle....BUT I do know that estrus cycles of animals are controlled by photo-period. There are many factors that will effect rutting behavior in animals as in more activity at night vs. day. I can\'t comment on that with regard to elk but I would suspect that just like in whitetails.....hunting pressure, temperature, barometric pressure and moon phase all have bearing. As far as bugling I have no clue and have no real experience to even comment. My inclination would be similar to what I know about turkeys and why they gobble and that is that I have no idea why they gobble today and don\'t tommorrow. The big difference in silent birds vs. silent bulls is that you normally can put yourself within 1/4 mile of where you know turkeys have been in the past and you will normally be in the chips and could easily kill a silent bird. With elk it seems like you can be where elk were the day before and you know that you are within 10 miles of them. LOL!