Paper Tuning Question

It is your grip if I had to guess. Bare shafting will exaggerate form flaws. While you are at full draw purposely twist your stabilizer to the left and see if it changes your tear. If it gets worse twist stabilizer to the right at full draw. My bet is you will see it clear up.

That being said....don\'t get hung up on bare shaft tuning. If you can get it to shoot with fletch and broadheads you are good to go.

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I am not sure if I was being clear but at full draw, twist your hand in your grip in a manner than makes your stab move left and then try it to the right.

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\"bowhunter\" said:
Are you using 125 gr tips? If so you might need a stiffer spine. Try a 100 gr tip and see if that improves things.
Click to expand...
I am using 100 grain tips.

\"Bowfreak\" said:
It is your grip if I had to guess. Bare shafting will exaggerate form flaws. While you are at full draw purposely twist your stabilizer to the left and see if it changes your tear. If it gets worse twist stabilizer to the right at full draw. My bet is you will see it clear up.

That being said....don\'t get hung up on bare shaft tuning. If you can get it to shoot with fletch and broadheads you are good to go.
Click to expand...
Thanks Mark, I\'ll try that. Any suggestions on my grip? I put the grip in the life line of my hand and don\'t grip with any fingers.
 
\"cohunter14\" said:
\"bowhunter\" said:
Are you using 125 gr tips? If so you might need a stiffer spine. Try a 100 gr tip and see if that improves things.
Click to expand...
I am using 100 grain tips.

\"Bowfreak\" said:
It is your grip if I had to guess. Bare shafting will exaggerate form flaws. While you are at full draw purposely twist your stabilizer to the left and see if it changes your tear. If it gets worse twist stabilizer to the right at full draw. My bet is you will see it clear up.

That being said....don\'t get hung up on bare shaft tuning. If you can get it to shoot with fletch and broadheads you are good to go.
Click to expand...
Thanks Mark, I\'ll try that. Any suggestions on my grip? I put the grip in the life line of my hand and don\'t grip with any fingers.
Click to expand...

You are starting with the right grip but you may find that you need to apply a little bit of pressure than what feels natural. You may find you have to add a little more pressure on your thumb or on your finger side. You will just have to play with it. You should however be able to see a difference in your bare shaft tear. One thing I will add is once you learn what grip you need to use, try to get your grip set before you draw your bow and then when drawing or at full draw do not manipulate your grip. Learn where it needs to be at the start and then just draw and keep your grip still and relaxed. You will see many people at full draw torquing their bows at full draw as they try to get their grip hand comfortable. Some people can shoot well like this but it is hard to manipulate your hand the same exact way every time at full draw.
 
I reread the post about your grip. One thing to mention is your lifeline should never be inside of the grip. The bow should ride on the thumb side of the lifeline. You can play with knuckle angle and how deep your hand is into the grip or how close your lifeline is to the grip.
 
Thanks for all the info guys. I think you are spot on that it\'s my grip. By tinkering with my grip, I have been able to get some bullet holes at close range now. Unfortunately as I back up, I continue to get the tear to the left of the hole, but I\'ll keep working on it!
 
Put a super slippery thin glove on if you have one and see if it helps or hurts.

I had a coach fix my grip and trigger pull. Changed everything


Sent via Jedi mind trick.
 
You also probably need to put your bow in a press and add a twist or two to the left yoke. That will correct your left tear also.

Put your rest Centershot at 3/4\" from the riser(not the shelf pad). Then if you have a left tear you can add twists to the left yoke and play with your grip. The combination of the two will fix you up.

Remember if you add a twist on the left side, remove one from the right to keep timing close. It is always a good idea to make sure the cams are still in time after you make any cable/yoke adjustments.

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X2 on grip
Didn\'t catch what bow your shooting but I learned that changing your grip definitely throws all in the wind. My Hoyt cam lean could be exaggerated or eliminated just from the grip pressure in my palm done during the draw cycle. For years I tended to have more pressure in the V between my thumb and index and fought cam lean, once a guy at bow shop saw it he told me to have as much even pressure in entire Palm of hand. I got no idea why this affected the cam lean but made it disappear. I wanted to call him all kinds on crazy but it worked.

I\'m no expert, but seeing is believing for me.
Lipstick on the arrow rest forks works well as a contact tell all.

Keep us posted
 
\"Bowfreak\" said:
You also probably need to put your bow in a press and add a twist or two to the left yoke. That will correct your left tear also.

Put your rest Centershot at 3/4\" from the riser(not the shelf pad). Then if you have a left tear you can add twists to the left yoke and play with your grip. The combination of the two will fix you up.

Remember if you add a twist on the left side, remove one from the right to keep timing close. It is always a good idea to make sure the cams are still in time after you make any cable/yoke adjustments.
Click to expand...
I\'m wondering if this is going to have to be done...I can get bullet holes close up, but as I extend back I\'m still tearing to the left. Not as bad, but not good either. I\'ll keep tinkering, but might have to throw it in a press and try this. Only issue is my access to a press is via my old man, so I\'ll have to make a trip to his place at some point soon.
 
\"cohunter14\" said:
...... Any suggestions on my grip? I put the grip in the life line of my hand and don\'t grip with any fingers.
Click to expand...

I reread the entire post and noticed this about finger grip, when I figured out the cam lean issues on my Hoyt, the bow \"expert\" at the bow shop had me apply finger grip pressure to securely hold the bow, no death grip but good comfortable grip. (For years I never gripped the bow with finger pressure for fear of inducing torque) The trick is learning consistency with pressure in the palm and fingers without appling hand torque at the shot.

At the shot the bow relieves the torque induced from the cabling side loads during the draw cycle and this is where the grip helps hold steady until the arrow gets clear.

Consistency is the key and as mentioned you will fight bare shaft tuning from now till September so I wouldn\'t get too immersed with in.
 
Derek,
I think you should back waaaaayyyy up.
In all my years, I have only bareshaft tuned a couple times and that was when I was having trouble tuning my FLETCHED arrows.

I don?t hunt with bare shafts, so having them not shoot bullet holes isn?t a priority with me. Fletching on an arrow is on an arrow for a reason!
Fletch up a couple of those new GTs and THEN shoot thru paper. Then adjust accordingly.

I bet your results will be surprising
 
\"cnelk\" said:
Derek,
I think you should back waaaaayyyy up.
In all my years, I have only bareshaft tuned a couple times and that was when I was having trouble tuning my FLETCHED arrows.

I don?t hunt with bare shafts, so having them not shoot bullet holes isn?t a priority with me. Fletching on an arrow is on an arrow for a reason!
Fletch up a couple of those new GTs and THEN shoot thru paper. Then adjust accordingly.

I bet your results will be surprising
Click to expand...


X2 I agree. The goal is to have good groups. If it isn\'t broke. Don\'t fix it.
 
Well, I did a little more work on it last night and between adjusting my grip and adjusting my rest a bit, I am now getting less than a 1/2\" tear from 7 yards and about a 1.5\" tear at 15 yards, which is significantly better. Bullet holes every time from 6 feet or so. I was definitely applying some pressure with my thumb and by removing that pressure, it helped a lot.

So I think I\'m going to stick with what I\'ve got for now and get a few arrows fletched up once the fletching arrives and go from there. I\'m somewhat of a perfectionist, but I\'m happy with the progress I have gotten. I\'m sure I\'ll get solid results with fletching on considering I was getting perfect holes with my older arrows and then similar results once I stripped the fletching off. We\'ll see what happens...the fletching won\'t be here for a couple days :think:

Thanks to everyone here for the advice, I really appreciate it! This is quite the learning curve, but I\'m enjoying it.
 
I\'ve seen guys worry themselves to death over paper tuning. :crazy: Personally, I think it is a big bunch of bovine excretion. Almost any arrow will paper tune. It\'s just a matter of how far away the paper is from the bow when the arrow straightens out. So long as the arrow spine is correct or maybe even one size heavier, You shouldn\'t have all that much trouble.

The real way to go is to do WALK BACK tuning. Get that right, and you will be good to go! :upthumb:
 
\">>>---WW---->\" said:
I\'ve seen guys worry themselves to death over paper tuning. :crazy: Personally, I think it is a big bunch of bovine excretion. Almost any arrow will paper tune. It\'s just a matter of how far away the paper is from the bow when the arrow straightens out. So long as the arrow spine is correct or maybe even one size heavier, You shouldn\'t have all that much trouble.

The real way to go is to do WALK BACK tuning. Get that right, and you will be good to go! :upthumb:
Click to expand...

To each his own....I think walk back tuning is a waste. I normally paper tune quick and head straight to broadhead tune at the longest distance I feel I can be accurate. That being said....I slowly starting to convert to bare shaft tuning first because it will show you if you have vane contact after you fletch arrows. This is much more common now with bows that now have the flexible cable guards that allow the cables to move closer to the fletching during the shot.
 
From everything I have seen, the different tuning methods are like Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge...everyone has an opinion. I am probably going to try them all and see what works best for me. The one thing I can say is bare shaft tuning definitely showed me an error in my grip that I otherwise wouldn\'t have noticed. That might have saved me a bunch of headaches when it comes to getting broad-heads and field tips hitting the same POI.
 
You ever seen a slo-mo video of an arrow in flight? It looks like a floppy noodle flying down range. I always imagined it cutting a random paper hole further down range. It flies like a mini javalin.

I paper tune to confirm arrow is leaving bow straight. My thinking is that my vanes take over from there. At that point I only care my broadheads are hitting with my field tips at my hunting distances. Which is ultimately my end game.


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